The hybrid Syno thread

[Richard B]

Hopefully a lot of people who use Planet Catfish will be aware that there are a massive amount of hybrid synodontis out there. Love 'em or hate 'em, they are here to stay for the time being & although personally i am very much against them, things would be better if they were clearly identified at shops & not passed off as genuine species. There is lot's of good info in cat-e-log on hybrids & http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworl ... cle_id=269 this article in Shane's world.

Hybrids have though, in my more recent experience, become far more varied in types, & of a better "quality" that is to say they are getting far closer to genuine species. (EG we have seen hybrid decora with branched maxillary barbels, & multi hybrids almost identical save for a few black flecks in the white section of the dorsal).

I suspect there are starting to be many species crossed to create hybrids, that weren't crossed before but also that hybrids are being crossed with genuine species & perhaps hybrid type 1 with hybrid type 3 to create further variants.

In order to educate people where possible & compliment cat-e-log, i will try & post some of the things i see in this thread & would encourage anyone with hybrid examples to do the same.

Cat-e-log hybrid types...

Synodontis sp_hybrid(1)

Synodontis sp_hybrid(2)

Synodontis sp_hybrid(3)

Synodontis sp_hybrid(4)

Synodontis sp_hybrid(5)

[Richard B]

Synodontis sp_hybrid(2)

has long been thought to be a petricola x nigrita cross. This is the hybrid which in the UK was offered as

Synodontis granulosa

before we knew what young 'grannys' looked like. People said the white fin edges developed as the fish grew - this is not the case as has been proven by the captive breeding of

Synodontis granulosa

- see F1 pics in cat-e-log.

This hybrid seems to get a greater number of body spots as the fish grows as in the pic below.

note the faded black tail markings, evident in many Tangyanikan species

IMGP0501.JPG (54.18 KiB) Viewed 61160 times

[Richard B]

A new hybrid i encountered yesterday was labelled "Petricola Hybrid" but is extremely close to

Synodontis granulosa

- frighteningly so.

The only differences, (bar correct labelling) is the price (as 'Granny's' are very expensive) & the fact the dark & white portions of the fins are not clearly segregated as they are on genuine fish.

[Richard B]

Synodontis sp_hybrid(4)

is often sold as

Synodontis multipunctata

. This hybrid is being seen more & more regularly. It is very similar to

Synodontis sp_hybrid(1)

IMGP0521.JPG (49.49 KiB) Viewed 61158 times

This one has been labelled S Pardalis, Tiger syno, leopard syno.

[Richard B]

This one could be a genuine species as it has more than a passing resemblence to

Synodontis ocellifer

but is being offered for sale as

Synodontis njassae

is clearly is not a rift lake species

IMGP0509.JPG (47.14 KiB) Viewed 61157 times

[Jools]

A new hybrid i encountered yesterday was labelled "Petricola Hybrid" but is extremely close to

Synodontis granulosa

- frighteningly so.

The only differences, (bar correct labelling) is the price (as 'Granny's' are very expensive) & the fact the dark & white portions of the fins are not clearly segregated as they are on genuine fish.

I have four of these and am growing them up. I think though that mine have grey as opposed to white barbles.

Jools

[Richard B]

A new hybrid i encountered yesterday was labelled "Petricola Hybrid" but is extremely close to

Synodontis granulosa

- frighteningly so.The only differences, (bar correct labelling) is the price (as 'Granny's' are very expensive) & the fact the dark & white portions of the fins are not clearly segregated as they are on genuine fish.

I have four of these and am growing them up. I think though that mine have grey as opposed to white barbles.
Jools

It will be extremely interesting to see how they develop contrasted with genuine Granulosa - PM sent

[Richard B]

Sorry - a particularly poor photo

S Multipunctata hybrid - note though particularly the first (hard spine) ray of the dorsal is white - Multipunctata do not have this.

IMGP0531.JPG (54.31 KiB) Viewed 61146 times

I'll try to get a better pic with my rubbishy camera if i can

[jippo]

Thanks Richard for this thread.

Can you post some of these earlier hybrid ornatipinnis and decora photos here too. Those are quite common also at the moment.

I will check my hybrid photos when i got more time.

[Richard B]

Thanks Richard for this thread.

Can you post some of these earlier hybrid ornatipinnis and decora photos here too. Those are quite common also at the moment.

I will check my hybrid photos when i got more time.

I will drop some links to other threads, but am not sure of the protocols of posting other peoples pics???

[Birger]

I will drop some links to other threads, but am not sure of the protocols of posting other peoples pics???

Links to other threads are good and then we can post pics as we get additions (and permission to use those pics).


Birger

[Timberwolf]

I can happily say that my hybrid syno was not represented to me as anything other than an orphaned syno. It had been dropped off at the LFS by someone who was tearing down their tanks to move. The employees knew she was a synodontis, but didn't even want to guess.

MatsP has labeled her Synodontis sp. hybrid (8).

[Jools]

You might want to consider editing the first post to list all the hybrids in the catelog. E.G.

Synodontis sp_hybrid(1)

etc?

Jools

[Richard B]

I didn't have my camera with me so no pic but MA stratford-upon-avon have one of what looks to be a balloon syno - like balloon parrot cichlids, balloon mollies.

I can't be sure as it was partly concealed but certainly it was disproportionate in body length & was brown hybrid of some sort

We've seen pics of balloon o.Niger so i suspect it would be possible to "balloon" a syno......

If it is, i am very disheartened

[Richard B]

You might want to consider editing the first post to list all the hybrids in the catelog. E.G.

Synodontis sp_hybrid(1)

etc?Jools

done

[Richard B]

I can happily say that my hybrid syno was not represented to me as anything other than an orphaned syno. It had been dropped off at the LFS by someone who was tearing down their tanks to move. The employees knew she was a synodontis, but didn't even want to guess.

MatsP has labeled her Synodontis sp. hybrid (8).

Shouldn't this be hybrid 6 not 8? (as there aren't a 6 & 7 currently)

[Carp37]

I can see hybrids 6 and 7 in the Cat-eLog- could just be a timing difference.

[MatsP]

I haven't added any new hybrid species yet. It will have whatever is the "next number" when I get around to doing that.

--
Mats

[Richard B]

I can see hybrids 6 and 7 in the Cat-eLog- could just be a timing difference.

I still cant see hybrid 6 or 7?

[MatsP]

There are currently, five hybrids in the list. There may be other "unidentified" species, but the only ones with "hybrid" as part of the name are these (you can bookmark/reuse that link, and it will show the actual number at the time).

--
Mats

[Carp37]

sorry- my mistake- I was looking at the unidentified GENUINE species

Mats if you want to delete my posts to clean up the thread feel free

[Haavard Stoere]

This is a very interesting subject

Although I currently don`t keep synos I am a great fan of the genus and hope to acquire a genuine species some time in the future.

A few months ago I came across these fish at my LFS. They were imported from Checkia.
All 11 fish were around 7-8cm tl. They were labelled S. petricola and were identified as hybrids by the good people of PlanetCatfish. The pictures may be used for any educational purpose on PC. What features makes these obvious hybrids? Which species has been involved in producing this hybrid?

[Richard B]

Thanks for posting Haavard - those look like a variety of hybrid 2 - they look quite small in size

[Birger]

What features makes these obvious hybrids? Which species has been involved in producing this hybrid?

This fish has features from both S.ocellifer and a rift syno either S.grandiops or mutipunctata.

The spotting and shape of the adipose fin are all S.ocellifer but the shape and the way it holds itself (fins erect) and the tell tale black stripes on the upper and lower lobes come from the other.
It is probably an active fish as well more like a rift cat would be.(conjecture)
To me it looks healthy with no obvious deformaties that scream hybrid.

Birger

[Richard B]

Although i feel this is still being debated as genuine or hybrid, this is IMHO a hybrid based on

Synodontis ornatipinnis

IMGP0540.JPG (52.77 KiB) Viewed 34074 times

IMGP0542.JPG (87.57 KiB) Viewed 34074 times

[Richard B]

What features makes these obvious hybrids? Which species has been involved in producing this hybrid?

This fish has features from both S.ocellifer and a rift syno either S.grandiops or mutipunctata.

The spotting and shape of the adipose fin are all S.ocellifer but the shape and the way it holds itself (fins erect) and the tell tale black stripes on the upper and lower lobes come from the other.
It is probably an active fish as well more like a rift cat would be.(conjecture)
To me it looks healthy with no obvious deformaties that scream hybrid.
Birger

If this is hybrid 2 i am informed it is petricola x nigrita - this is based on speaking with people who have produced hybrid fish, although not necessarily this type of hybrid

The obvious deformities seen previously seem to be a thing of the past & hybrid types now look strong healthy fish

[Timberwolf]

I haven't added any new hybrid species yet. It will have whatever is the "next number" when I get around to doing that.

--
Mats

Calling her sp_hybrid (8) is my mistake, based on what I misunderstood from conversations with Mats in an earlier thread. My appologies to all.

Sam

[Richard B]

I haven't added any new hybrid species yet. It will have whatever is the "next number" when I get around to doing that. --Mats

Calling her sp_hybrid (8) is my mistake, based on what I misunderstood from conversations with Mats in an earlier thread. My appologies to all.

Sam

Hey no worries at all - there are getting to be so many hybrids IME (& perhaps only genetic data will confirm this) that we'll probably end up with dozens of em

As an example - there are pics of hybrid 2 in this thread (from me & Haavard) & the cat-e-log page - all are hybrids but slightly different from each other - they are lumped together under the hybrid 2 banner as they are all similar but they could be different hybrid versions & maybe each have their own number (i'd prefer not to though)

[sidguppy]

for those who thought my rants against the hybrids were on the strong side, well with this

The obvious deformities seen previously seem to be a thing of the past & hybrid types now look strong healthy fish

all my worst predictions have come true

already there are LFSses that have ONLY hybrid Syno's for sale and the prices go up as well


we are ALL being shafted by a bunch of mad doctors and this is done WITH the knowing and cooperation of the wholesalers.
most LFs owners are more into cichlids or into the average tropical community fish, but a spotted African catfish of the Syno genus is just that.
you wouldn't want to know the number of LFS owners that think Synodontis is the ONLY catfish from Africa, really

pretty soon the hybrids have the prices of the original species and we, the ones that like to keep REAL catfishes instead of manmade bogus ones, we will be relicts from the past
blown away by unscrupulous entrepeneurs that have destroyed our hobby

I'll tell you what's next: L numbers and Corydoras

already there are quite a few fake Zebra pleco's; I also have seen -maybe 10 years ago! - a list of all the Corydoras hybrids available in former Eastern Europe

UNLESS we as a fishkeepers community get vocal on this, spread our knowledge allo over and boycott the whole damn thing; it'll get worse

that's capitalism for you

and if you think I'm just a ranting old geezer with a pessimistic view, well.....

once there was a small group of men that predicted it would go rong with planet earth and rampant capitalism if we wouldn't wake up from our stupor get off our lazy asses and put the breaks on the overpopulation, pollution, wars and unregulated capitalism rape of earth. everybody ignored them.
that was in 1970......I don't have to tell you were we are now, do I?

the hybrid issue is EXACTLY like that, albeit on a smaller scale. greed, rampant capitalism, a total lack of ethics, greed, more greed and the "I can get away with this" attitude of wholesalers and breeders have made this possible.
ignorance, lazyness, "political correctness" and the reluctant attitude to avoid any stance on this from our parts are all involved as well; we as a catfish community should get vocal on this.

the time of staying on the sidelines and waiting it out till the 'disease has run it's course' , waiting with our heads in the sand till it blows over has long gone.
especially since WE should know BETTER. the average fishkeeper who doesn't know one end of a catfish from the other isn't to blame

it smells like our selfishness in keeping our treasured conections and privileges to wholesalers and importers are obviously so much treasured that any criticism on their part of the Hybrid Scam must be avoided at all parts....wich I find repulsive.
yes, repulsive.
if without ethics and without the will to stand up and take protest against a very large cheating scam then what are we?

[Richard B]

Sid - strong words indeed but i personally agree.

Hence this thread to educate as to what the hybrids look like.

Yesterday i went through a wholesale list - (not czech either) & the scores were sadly ...
hybrid 13
genuine 11