Freeze in Florida threatens tropical farms

[apistomaster]

From the on line New York Times comes this article about the devastation of the Florida tropical fish farming industry due to the recent abnormally cold weather. Albino Bushy Nose Pleco losses high.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/us/11fish.html?hp

[Richard B]

Whoa - that look real bad

[Lloydy]

Oh dear, the best of luck to them and lets hope the losses are not too bad!

[Mike_Noren]

There's a silver lining to this cold: it'll reduce many of the invasive species in Florida. Iguanas, pythons and jewel cichlids don't handle frost well. At all.

[Bas Pels]

Tough luck for the breeders - but Florisa is not tropical, so expecting to breed tropical fish in florida is taking a risk

Good all invasive species will be wiped out, so the native ones will have a change to return

[MatsP]

Good all invasive species will be wiped out, so the native ones will have a change to return

I doubt that will happen on a large scale - sure, some will. The reason I think this is that the ponds for breeding are most likely a lot shallower than the native bodies of water are overall - and fish knows to swim to warmer parts if they need to.

--
Mats

[Mike_Noren]

Some invasives, like maybe Mayan Cichlid, may be completely wiped out, but most will likely just have their numbers reduced.
I'm sure there'll be studies made on the effects of this cold spell, and it'll be very interesting to see how the introduced species coped.

[sidguppy]

this is not good; one of the few breeders of Madagascar fish -Laif Demason- has his place in Florida, I believe, and most of his fish are in ponds

Madagascar fishes are all highly endangered or even extinct in the wild.
if Laif's place gets wiped out; it's not just a big loss for the fishkeepers; but a significant bite out of the already too small genepool of several species that might be lost forever.

[wrasse]

Alien species are establishing in the UK as well. In today's newspaper an article tells of how red-eared terrapins and aggressive snapping turtles are thriving and eating native species. Our current cold spell might slow them down a bit.....

[JoeO]

This also is an interesting situation for us home breeders. I breed catfish to pick up a few bucks to help pay for my hobby. The LFS offered me 95 cents for some tank raised Aeneus cats. His justification was that that is what he paid for them from the wholesaler. I did get more in store credit.
Now the LFSs will have to woo the home breeders. No more 95 cent catfish. This will be very interesting.
I need to get all of my tanks up and running....

[apistomaster]

My thinking was like your thoughts, Joe.
Reduced mass produced supply should be good for small or hobbyist breeders. A bit selfish because the damage done to the large fish farms will probably put some families out of the business. Hopefully they will qualify for the same Federal emergency assistance that farmers and ranchers get.

I doubt the alien invasive fish species will suffer very much because the ponds and concrete vats used are small bodies of water which are quick to loss their heat. There will be few losses of the alien species of fish, anyway because so many are well established in constant temperature, spring fed rivers or large bodies of water. The effects on terrestrial species may be deeper but not enough to do more than set them back a few years.

[apistomaster]

I found this factoid interesting and I think relevant to the recent southern freeze.
"And it is certainly not the coldest air that has descended on the United States. In a great blizzard that swept across the East Coast in 1899, even parts of Florida dropped to below zero."
1-11-10 NYT Science section
So it could be worse.

[apistomaster]

Looks like Mile Noren's prediction came true, at least for this iguana.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/us/14florida.html?hp

[Taratron]

Well well well well well....my bristlenose are not albino but they toss longfin babies. Time to get some albinos from my friend and get fry! And then to get them to the store....

[apistomaster]

So many people are breeding various forms of Bushy Nose plecos that few shops order them so the freeze won't have much affect on the market. I think we will see, at least in the USA, that only a few fish will become scarce for awhile because so many are also easily obtained from the fish farms in SE Asia. I suspect some Madagascar and East African Cichlidae will be in shorter supply.
The live bearers from Florida always seemed to be nice larger fish on average than those from SE Asia but it isn't something many hobbyists will ever notice.
You would have to really love your fish to make your living raising the bread and butter species in Florida even in the best of times. It is a lot of work to produce fish on the scale of some of the larger tropical fish farms in Florida.
Sometimes I think my 15 aquariums are too much work, I can't imagine having to net out a large pond for platies and swordtails.

[Taratron]

Actually, I meant it for this thread, but I couldn't find a way to insert the evil laughter at the idea of selling marked up fry to the pet store.

[Chrysichthys]

There's a silver lining to this cold: it'll reduce many of the invasive species in Florida. Iguanas, pythons and jewel c*****ds don't handle frost well. At all.

It's also making it easier to capture exotic reptiles as they go into a state of torpor. (But causing problems for native reptiles as well). Here's an article from today's Times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/s ... 987105.ece

[sidguppy]

those Burmese pythons make good chow

you can eat off a single one with a whole family, bring the ketchup.

you DO need a whopping big BBQ to fry one, though, even in parts.
maybe a few oildrums split lengthwise and filled with charcoal will do the job

snake is quite tasty.

FWIW Iguana is edible too; unfortunately it's more skin and bones than meat; but a good sized one yields some meat.

[Chrysichthys]

I don't mind the thought of eating a snake, but putting ketchup on it? Yuck!!!

[cochito]

I wish all the luck and future success for the Floridan farms. But, don't you all think it's due to global warming? It's unusually cold here in Japan this year. Something is weird.

Peace!

[Mike_Noren]

The current cold weather is well within the normal range for Florida when viewed over slightly longer perspective - decades rather than years. If memory serves 1986 was colder than it is now.

[Chrysichthys]

I wish all the luck and future success for the Floridan farms. But, don't you all think it's due to global warming? It's unusually cold here in Japan this year. Something is weird.

According to the Times weatherman all this cold weather in the Northern Hemisphere has something to do with the El Nino, which occurs in the Pacific Ocean but has global effects.

A couple of weeks ago in Edmonton, Alberta it was -46 Celsius.

[Bas Pels]

Strange, our wheather predicters always state the El Nino effects are inmeasurable in Europe

Can't say anything about North America, but the effects are supposed to be restricted to Africa, Asia, North and South America and Australia - and all seas, oceans and islands in between

But not Europe

[Chrysichthys]

Here's the article where he makes the claim; he says El Nino affects the jet stream. I'm not qualified to say whether he's right or wrong:

http://times.cluster.newsint.co.uk/tol/ ... 976679.ece

[Richard B]

those Burmese pythons make good chow, you can eat off a single one with a whole family, bring the ketchup.
you DO need a whopping big BBQ to fry one, though, even in parts.
maybe a few oildrums split lengthwise and filled with charcoal will do the job
snake is quite tasty.
FWIW Iguana is edible too; unfortunately it's more skin and bones than meat; but a good sized one yields some meat.

I just watched a TV programme on invasive pythons in Florida - wow, i didn't realise it was quite that bad

[PeterUK]

Looks like Mile Noren's prediction came true, at least for this iguana.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/us/14florida.html?hp

Note under a picture on this link states .... Orange trees in Clermont, Fla., after they were sprayed with water to help insulate them from the cold.

Spaying trees with water that will freeze (to supposedly insulate them) doesnt seem exactly intelligent to me

[racoll]

all this cold weather in the Northern Hemisphere has something to do with the El Nino, which occurs in the Pacific Ocean but has global effects

Maybe this also explains why we've had such as crappy summer so far here!

Spaying trees with water that will freeze (to supposedly insulate them) doesnt seem exactly intelligent to me

Yes, does seem counter-intuitive! They do it a lot to protect young shoots of grape vines in the spring. Something to do with entropy, apparently.

[Birger]

According to the Times weatherman all this cold weather in the Northern Hemisphere has something to do with the El Nino, which occurs in the Pacific Ocean but has global effects.

A couple of weeks ago in Edmonton, Alberta it was -46 Celsius.

That was with the wind chill so it sounds bad but to be honest it is not that far off of "normal" for the time of year. If anything it does not stay as cold as long as it did even 20 years ago when you could count on minus 20's or colder in Edmonton over jan and feb.
Which is due in part to the whole El Nino thing which effects our area quite a bit.

[Bas Pels]

Note under a picture on this link states .... Orange trees in Clermont, Fla., after they were sprayed with water to help insulate them from the cold.

Spaying trees with water that will freeze (to supposedly insulate them) doesnt seem exactly intelligent to me

It is a technique used in, I think, all fruit crops. I descent from apple growers myself

What happens is, when ice thaws, it needs a lot of energy to become liquid - even without getting warmer. Obviously, when water freezes, the same amount of energy has to be disposed.

As long as liquid water is around, the water (and thus the ice) is unable to get anywhere below 0 C. Crops freeze slightly below 0 C (due to the stuff dissolvede in the water in the cells) and therefore, as long as the temp is maintened at 0 C precisely, it will not freeze

It does, however, mean the grower will spend all night watering the trees - tough job

[PeterUK]

Ok, I'll take your word for that