Hi All!...Pictus help!

[Fish]

Hi everyone!

I've just set up my new tank and added my first fish a little pictus but there has been some debate on the dimensions of my tank which are 21" length, 20" height and 13" width which works out to about 20 gallons UK. What do you think?

Here's the fish:



[Mod edit: add image tags. --Mats]

[MatsP]

If we start by a basic rule of 4L x 2L x 2L - where L is the size of the fish, and then take the size of pictus cats, around 120 mm, we get a minum size of 480 x 240 x 240 mm (or about 18 x 9 x 9 inches).

However, this is one rule for all types of fish. Of course, when you get "one rule for all", it doesn't work very well, as different fish have different reuquirements.

Pimelodus pictus

certainly falls into the category where this rule is not suitable: They are very active swimmers, and they like to live in groups of 6 or more fish. But they ALSO like to have a little bit of their own space.

So I would say that a tank less than 1m (39") long is not suitable for these fish.

Your tank also looks very bare. These fish likes to have somewhere to hide when they feel like - some plants, flower pots or similar make good "decorations" and hiding places.

And they are certainly not good for starting up a fishtank - even if your tank is cycled using fishless cycling, it's probably best to start with something a bit less sensitive to ammonia/nitrite. If your tank is NOT cycled [and if you don't know what that means, it is not!], then you are in for plenty of water changes (daily or twice daily, 40% or so) to have any chance of keeping this fish healthy during the cycle period.
--
Mats

[Fish]

Thanks for the reply.

I'm not completely new to fish and my dad also has a 150g reef. The tank has been cycled but I didn't want to add too many straight away, there is decoration in there but you can't see it in the picture I'll also be adding some more plants. This is where i'm confused as I was told on another catfish forum that I could have up to 3 small ones in there!?

[MatsP]

Well, I guess that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that is generally what you get from a forum - I do not have research documents to prove what I posted in the previous post - it is my opinion, and how I would like to keep these fish if they were mine.

So, by what method did you cycle the tank? (Just curious)

--
Mats

[Fish]

Using bacteria solution then by adding live river shrimp.

[DJ-don]

first of all welcome to planet catfish

and what is this bacteria solution anyway?

[MatsP]

How rude of me to not say "Welcome to Planet Catfish, Fish". Sometimes I get so excited about discussing the subject that I forget my manners...

Don: Bacteria solution or "bacteria in a bottle" is a product that contains live bacteria for the filter. Several companies sell these in europe, and I expect they are available in Australia too. There was a bit of discussion on Practical Fishkeeping's forum whether these actually work or not - some people say it works just great, others claim that it's not working - I never saw any concrete evidence in either direction, and you'd really need to do some proper investigative experimentation, which would require quite a bit of effort, to prove either direction.

--
Mats

[Fish]

He seems to be settling down pretty well, during the day he pops out now and then and night he is very active. I've made him a couple of caves at the back to hide in and I'll be adding some plants as soon as the shops open again I'll keep everyone updated

Thanks for the welcomes! Have a great new year

[Fish]

A little update: He seems to be doing well eating, etc. As there is only one he only comes out at night so should I get another? Also later on I wanted to add a Common whiptail (Rino. Parva)

Thanks

[MatsP]

If you are getting more, make sure you add at least TWO - a group consisting of two pictus will probably end up being a group of one pretty soon - they can bully each other, and if you have two, the dominant of the two will continually bully the sub-dominant one, until it leaves the tank (usually after the "laying upside down or on it's side at the top/bottom" bit that we all hate to see).

-
Mats

[Richard B]

2 isn't a good number for pictus - they are definately best kept in groups of at least 5 as then they start to settle & act most naturally - in the wild these live in vast shoals, which is difficult to replicate in captivity & as such the "happiest" i've seen them is in species tanks based on a 48x12" footprint in larger groups

[Fish]

OK Thanks for your help! I'll try and make the group up to 3

[Fish]

Well today I went to my local Maidenhead Aquatics (I don't normally go there) to buy another 2 Pictus. The guy I was talking to started telling me that they are poisonous so you can't handle them and that they are very aggressive and can't be kept with many fish as they'll take their eyes out He also said catfish are nocturnal and will only come out if you keep the lights off. I agreed and bought them anyway.

So far the new ones are keeping to themselves but one of the new ones is quite aggressive (Stumpy one with dark spots) and chases all the fish in the tank! So I turned the light off and the 3 pictus are starting to settle down together.

I'll see how it goes and keep everyone updated

[Timberwolf]

Pictus? Poisonous? I know that they (like most other catfish) can gouge you pretty badly with spines on their dorsal and pectoral fins, but I never heard of them being poisonous. I've never been to Jolly Old, so to me, Maidenhead Aquatics might as well be on Mars, but it sounds to me like someone was trying to impress you with more information than he actually had.

Check out this page about Pimelodus Pictus:

Pimelodus pictus

.

Welcome to Planet Catfish, by the way! One of the reasons I find this community to be so addictive (besides the actual sense of community that is here), is the absolutely staggering depth of knowledge that is here in the likes of MatsP, Shane, Cory_Man, and others. These guys are walking Catfish Bibles whose "opinions" are as factual as any college text you are likely to find (some of which, I believe, were written by a few of them). Spend some time exploring Shane's World and the CotM. I joined Planet Catfish in October, when I had 2 parotocinclus jumbo (LDA-25) and wanted to know more about them, because I had been surprised by their personalities (poissonalities?). I have found that in corresponding with the people here that their love of catfish is wickedly contagious. I now have 9 cats in four different species (2 p. jumbo, 5 albino c.aeneas, 1 corydoras delphax, and what seems to be the first documentation of synodontis sp. hybrid (8)).

I agree with you about the Pictus cats, by the way; I can't wait to have room to keep a school of them!

[Fish]

Thanks for the welcome!

I knew the guy in the shop was wrong but I couldn't be bothered to argue This site is pretty good and everyone is very friendly and helpful there are also some awesome tanks in here

I'm thinking of making this a catfish only tank as for some reason catfish are always the ones I'm attracted to whenever I go to the shop! Can anyone suggest any that would go in my tank?

Thanks

[Timberwolf]

Jools, and MatsP are in your neck of the woods. I'll bet that they can recommend more than one LFS close to you that could be more knowledgeable and not mistake Pimpictus for stinging cats!

[Fish]

I have an LFS that my dad uses regularly (For his reef) and the guy is actually his friend and says he could try and get in any of the fish I want. It's just this one was a little closer and the bad weather made it convenient.

[DJ-don]

hey
are you putting the fish in the 20 gallon tank?
its way too small to house 3
you should very quickly consider getting a bigger tank for pictus cats

[Fish]

Yeah they are in the 20 gallon, unfortunately I don't have space for a larger tank

[MatsP]

Jools, and MatsP are in your neck of the woods. I'll bet that they can recommend more than one LFS close to you that could be more knowledgeable and not mistake Pimpictus for stinging cats!

I may be, but Jools actually lives in another country - it may not be further away than another state in the US, but in this area it counts as "far away". It is 340 miles from my town of Farncombe to Bathgate where Jools lives. And depending on where in London "Fish" is from, it may well be 50 or more miles. Yes, I can certainly recommend a shop, but it could be quite a drive and there may well be a few closer ones.

Pimelodus pictus are not poisonous, but they do have serrated fins that can rip nice holes in your fingers if you get them badly. And they definitely stick to the net if you are not careful. Better to catch them in a plastic container of some sort (measuring jugs are good for this, pint-glasses or similar also work).

--
Mats

[Fish]

I live in NW Lonodn

Can anyone suggest some good 'cats' to go in my tank?

[Timberwolf]

Smaller cats seem to be the right answer, based on your tank. I have a pair of Pitbull/Goby Plecos (LDA-25) that are the reason that I got hooked on cats in the first place. They stay small, play like corys, and are the best algea cleaners I have ever seen. They will even clean algea off of my plants without damaging the plants (which the corys love to dig up, so I'm constantly replanting them ).

I also have 6 corydoras and have been constantly delighted by their behavior. Coryman would be a better resource about them (probably the best in the world), as would Dave Rinaldo, in Texas, USA.

I am slowly changing from "Wow, I got lucky," towards "That was easy," largely with the help and advise of the other members here. Good luck!

[Fish]

Smaller cats seem to be the right answer, based on your tank. I have a pair of Pitbull/Goby Plecos (LDA-25) that are the reason that I got hooked on cats in the first place. They stay small, play like corys, and are the best algea cleaners I have ever seen. They will even clean algea off of my plants without damaging the plants (which the corys love to dig up, so I'm constantly replanting them ).

I also have 6 corydoras and have been constantly delighted by their behavior. Coryman would be a better resource about them (probably the best in the world), as would Dave Rinaldo, in Texas, USA.

I am slowly changing from "Wow, I got lucky," towards "That was easy," largely with the help and advise of the other members here. Good luck!

Cool

I actually need something that eats any uneaten food off the floor, a clean up crew pretty much. I'm not sure if crabs are a good idea with pictus?

[Richard B]

No pun intended but you don't want crabs. The LDA025 is a great suggestion - you probably won't find much better

[Fish]

I thought so. I saw some bull dog pleco's in the shop today

[Fish]

Well the fish seem to have taken well to their new tank set up, swimming through the plants, hiding in the bog wood and they also seem less 'skittish' and come out more during the day

I also just fed them and I have to say the Pictus cats are interesting to watch, the way they swim around the bottom kind of sweeping the floor with their barbels looking for food. One thing though, the first pictus I got (the one who was on his own for a while) still prefers to hide during the day and come out at night and I'm a bit worried there will be no food left for him. Is there anything I can do?

[Timberwolf]

Do your pictus cats have the same patterns to their spots? The CotM page for the

Pimelodus pictus

talks about two different variations of colorations that identify two different regional variations. I wonder if the one that is more nocturnal is a different subspecies from the other two. Keeping in mind that I am guessing and all I have to offer is a WAG (Wild A** Guess ), there could be behavioral differences between the two types, as well as the differences in markings written about on the CotM and Cat-eLog pages.

There are many members here who are far more qualified than I, but until Shane, or MatsP (or any of dozens of more knowledgeable members of this community) weigh in, I would begin with the more detailed listings on this site.

You mentioned finding Bull Dog Plecos. The Cat-eLog talks about a Bulldog Pleco,

Chaetostoma sp_aff_milesi

, that is very different from the Pitbull Pleco

Parotocinclus jumbo

. I can't tell you that it's not a great fish, but it is very different from the LDA-25. It gets much bigger, to begin with, which may be a problem in a 20 gallon tank with 3 pictus cats. It is also more omniverous the the Pitbull and I gathered frim reading the Cat-eLog page that getting it to eat commercially prepared food could be a challenge.

[Fish]

Sorry I meant to write Pit bull

They are the same as far as I can see, all silver with black spots and a white belly. The first one is slightly larger as well. (My pictus cats I mean)

[Timberwolf]

The differences talked about in the Cat-eLog are subtle and only likely to show when you have the two variants side-by-side. One has more, smaller spots than the other.

It could simply be that they are still sorting out their order of dominance, or that the smaller two haven't, yet, accepted their larger tank mate (or vice-versa). My guess is that it will sort itself out reasonably quickly.

Good luck.

[Fish]

On closer inspection the 2 new ones look Peruvian and the bigger one seems to be Columbian judging by the picture on the link. It's hard to see the bigger one because he's hiding!

I'll try and upload a picture tomorrow but it will be hard to catch them sitting still