What kind of catfish is this?

[Sparx]

Hello,

I recently got this unknown catfish mixed up in a pack of ghost shrimp I bought for fish food. Its size is really small, only about 2 cm. Can someone please give an ID? Is it some kind of Sisoridae? I'm pretty sure this catfish is a local catfish. (I'm from Indonesia).

Thank you very much.

[naturalart]

Looks like an Otocinclus sp. of some sort. But if you send get better pics you could probably get a more accurate id.

[Richard B]

It may well naturally exist with ghost shrimp - do you know what species they are as that might clue us in a bit - given the quality of the pics, this may be one for Silurus,

[Silurus]

It's definitely neither a sisorid nor any other Asian catfish. I would guess that you have a young

Pterygoplichthys disjunctivus

or

Pterygoplichthys pardalis

, since these alien South American catfishes are pretty well established and common in some parts of Indonesia (if you're in Java, I'd say the chances that your fish is one of the two species mentioned just went up by a whole lot).

[Martin S]

I'm not doubting your experience and knowledge HH, but the first image shows yellowish banding on the fish, which as far as I know is not present on any species of Pterygoplichthys. It is very 'Otocinclus' in shape, but agree clearer pictures are definitely needed to give us a chance to get a bit closer to the ID.
Martin

[MatsP]

I'm not doubting your experience and knowledge HH, but the first image shows yellowish banding on the fish, which as far as I know is not present on any species of Pterygoplichthys. It is very 'Otocinclus' in shape, but agree clearer pictures are definitely needed to give us a chance to get a bit closer to the ID.
Martin

I'm not directly saying you are wrong, but have you actually seen any Pterygoplichtys species before they reach an inch in length - I haven't, and thus I have absolutely no idea what they look like. It's not that unusual for fish to change quite a bit between "newly hatched" and "still a baby but starting to get mature colours".

--
Mats

[DutchFry]

yes I'll second that Mats, especially some Pterygoplichthys species look incredibly spectacular when young, before they turn into dull colored adults. P. weberi for example!

However, the pictured fish has stripes across the body and this is something I've never seen in young common pleco's. I bought a young P. pardalis once, about 1 cm TL, and he looked just like the adults do. Also, the pectorals on the pictured fish are off compared to Pterygoplichthys.

My first guess would be something in the Otocinclus/Parotocinclus corner. I understand this would be a strange find in that area. better pictures are needed indeed.

[Sparx]

First of all, thank you for all of your replies.

Unfortunately, I can't give you a better picture because I don't have a proper digital camera (I took those pictures with my cellphone) and I've lost those tiny catfish. One is dead, and I can't find the other. I dont know if it's just hiding or if it's dead somewhere under the plants. Just in case you don't know, in Indonesia, they don't take good care of water quality for ghost shrimp (or any live fish food in general), so maybe it's natural if it's dead..

Yes, I live in Java (West), and I can't tell you why it got mixed up in ghost shrimp, probably some locals or farmers threw in any kind of fish they found in the river or lake for ghost shrimp food. Sometimes I also find other local fish mixed up in the pack (but not catfish, obviously).

From the first glance, I quickly thought that this fish would be either Ottos or Parottos family, but I couldn't find any information other than they come from South America. So I thought I might be wrong. Then I posted a question on an Indonesian fish forum, but they didn't know either. However, there was someone who suggested that this might be a Sisoridae (from Asia) but I couldn't find any information either. So here I am, desperately wanting to know what kind of fish this is.

@Silurus
I'm sorry, but looking at its head, which is triangular, I doubt if it is a Pterygoplichthys sp. But if it is an Otto or Parotto sp, why would a sane person throw away such a rare imported fish for ghost shrimp food. @_@

Btw, sometimes I find words like c*chlid and pl*co censored here. Is it illegal to write other types of fish here?

Thanks again for the replies.

[MatsP]

The star in pleco/cichlid is a setting in the User Control Panel -> Board Preferences -> Display Options - there is also an explanation in the FAQ section (under the "Help" menu).

--
Mats

[MatsP]

I'm pretty sure the fish didn't come from one of the tanks in the shop, but from the collection point of the shrimp, which may well be a pond somewhere on Java, and that may also be a breeding ground for some Loricariidae species - what kind would require a better photo, or some patience to let it grow bigger.

--
Mats

[Silurus]

Most of the aquatic habitats in Java are quite screwed up, to the point that if the ghost shrimp were wild caught, they likely came from a body of water that would have a considerable number of alien species in it. My identification as a Pterygoplichthys came from a hunch that the fish was from Java and the fact that Pterygoplichthys is the most common introduced loricariid there (it is said that Pterygoplichthys is the only fish that is able to survive in the very polluted Ciliwung River that flows through Jakarta), and not from any salient physical features I could see from the photographs.

[RickE]

Hi Silurus. Can you explain why you are so dismissive of a young Sisoridae? Is it the sucker mouth or something else? Not being awkward, just trying to understand....

Jools - is it possible to have the cat-e-log searchable by country and/or location?

[Martin S]

Jools - is it possible to have the cat-e-log searchable by country and/or location?

Rick
If you use the Advanced Search, you can only change the Distribution option to say African Waters, it will list all fish from all familes listed as being present in African Waters.
HTH
Martin

[Silurus]

From the head and body shape of the fish and my experience with sisorids, I'm pretty sure that isn't one.

[RickE]

OK, thanks both

[MatsP]

I'd like to expand a little bit on what Martin explained:
The database that contain bodies of waters is hierarchical (a bit like the directory/folder structure on a computer), so the "parent" for all rivers and lakes that we have in Africa [at least that's how it should be]. However, it's not always excellent. There is no common "South American waters" for example.

The database also has a record for "politcial region" for each body of water. However, again, it's a bit difficult to define a country/region for some rivers - a river may start in Colombia or Peru, and flow into Brazil. And there is only ONE entry [at present at least] for each body of water. And whilst it's possible, we haven't written the code to search based on the country/political region information.

--
Mats

[Sparx]

A little update..

About 4 days ago, I asked the woman who sold me these unknown creatures. She said that it might be a "boboso" fish aka Oxyeleotris marmorata or Marble Sleeper Goby.
But I suspect that this isn't O. marmorata because the absence of 2nd dorsal fin which any goby should have. I asked this to a person who is an expert of this species in my local forum, but he said it can't be an O. marmorata fry.
I think I'll ask some other forums about this goby, and I'll let you know after I gather some more information to prove that this is not a goby (I think so) plus, I'll get some specimen to further research.

[Suckermouth]

Absolutely not a goby, that is a fact. Another trait that gobies have is the ventral fins are fused into a disk for suction. This is clearly not the case in the fish you have.

[racoll]

Only better photos will clear this up I feel.

Otherwise, its just educated guesswork.

[Silurus]

Another trait that gobies have is the ventral fins are fused into a disk for suction.

Sleeper gobies (eleotrids) don't have fused pelvic fins.