Tanganyikan (and one other) Synos for Cat-eLog ID.

[MatsP]

I have these images from Mark Smith, but I'm only able to ID a few Synos - and these are definitely a bit outside my knowledge.

If any of these are already in the Cat-eLog, which species is it listed under?

Fish 1: cf Petricola "Kigoma"

Fish 2: from Baymyo, Kenya.

Fish 3: Zambia

Fish 4: (Not Lake Tanganyika, I think)

--
Mats

[Silurus]

Fish 1: S. irsacae

Fish 2: Possibly S. geledensis

Fish 4: S. greshoffi

[sidguppy]

1 is the fish I have kept as "petricola Giant from Tanzania" or it's twin brother! Kigoma IS northern Tanzania, so that's a fit

irsacae should have a dark or black dorsal spine; only petricola and lucipinnis have a white dorsal spine. the other species from Tanganyika (irsacae, dhonti, pjuvenile polli, chuckoo cats etc) have dark or black dorsal spines.



3 is grandiops I think; the eye is very large

it's a bit misleading; the fish is in a very bright environment, so it looks like it has a small eye, but it doesn't

it also has a very short nose. in regular multipunctatus the nose is less short and the eye a bit smaller


it's definitely one of the chuckoo cats.

[Jools]

I was wondering if "3" might be

Synodontis sp(2)

, but looking at it again, I think S. gandiops does look similar.

Jools

[Jools]

Having checked Poll, I think HH has a very good suggestion with S. geledensis. It looks like a fish right out of the river, so pattern should be, more or less, discounted.

Jools

[Dinyar]

I agree with Sid in thinking that #1 is cf. petricola.

[Birger]

Having checked Poll, I think HH has a very good suggestion with S. geledensis. It looks like a fish right out of the river, so pattern should be, more or less, discounted.

I agree...I think the membrane on the maxillary barbel is as it should be.
a few of these eastern species do get very light colored as they turn adult.

Birger

[sidguppy]

3 is definitely NOT the sp 2 polli white from Zambia; that species has small eyes, a wide blunt mouth, smaller barbels and a lot more black in pectoral and dorsal fins and a much more stubby bodyshape.

[Dinyar]

3 is grandiops

[Richard B]

1 cf petricola
2 geledensis
3 ?
4 greshoffi

(as agreed above)

I am very tempted to say 3 is an unidentified sp & not grandiops. The angle of the pic isn't perfect to see the tail which would be key in my thinking along with the much shorter squatter body. Leaving the eye aside as a specific feature, i think this could be what was called "goldeneye" a few years back. I saw some fish earlier in the year, which had some similarities, at Mike's Rifts which he had labelled as "dhonti small spot" - these were not multi, grandiops, dhonti etc but distinct species IMHO & apparently the exporter had indicated these are incredibly scarce. There was a pic of these on Aquarists Classified & i'll see if i can get permission for it to be used for cat-e-log

unidentifed tang syno

123589.jpg (62.99 KiB) Viewed 2815 times

[Jools]

Given you guys are familiar with it, is the "giant petricola" (e.g. fish#1 in this thread) already in the catelog? Is it

Synodontis sp(5)

?

Jools

[Jools]

I am very tempted to say 3 is an unidentified sp & not grandiops.

If, we did go down this route, I'd have to say S. aff. grandiops would be my suggestion - it's really quite close to my inexpert, and not golden, eyes.


Jools

[Richard B]

Given you guys are familiar with it, is the "giant petricola" (e.g. fish#1 in this thread) already in the catelog? Is it

Synodontis sp(5)

?

Jools

I don't think this is Giant Petricola but perhaps could be ilebrevis? Anyone else?

[Richard B]

I am very tempted to say 3 is an unidentified sp & not grandiops.

If, we did go down this route, I'd have to say S. aff. grandiops would be my suggestion - it's really quite close to my inexpert, and not golden, eyes.


Jools

It is VERY close - the fish at Mike's Rifts were clearly different when seen in a tank with grandiops swimming around etc. Your suggestion above is the most sensible thing IMO.

[Birger]

I don't think this is Giant Petricola but perhaps could be ilebrevis? Anyone else?

Fin spine color should be dark for S.ilebrevis.

As far as #3 I think we are on the right track...I think we even had a thread on one of these (a few?) months back.


1- S. cf. petricola
2- S. geledensis
3- S. aff. grandiops
4- S. greshoffi

[Richard B]

I don't think this is Giant Petricola but perhaps could be ilebrevis? Anyone else?

Fin spine color should be dark for S.ilebrevis.

Agreed, although the pic in seegers doesn'y have a particularly dark dorsal spine...

[Birger]

Agreed, although the pic in seegers doesn'y have a particularly dark dorsal spine...

you are right but it is not particularly white as well ...if that is S.ilebrevis in the picture in Seegers it is quite different looking than the one in pic #1 above, mind you the one above is looking a little thin.

[Dinyar]

Given you guys are familiar with it, is the "giant petricola" (e.g. fish#1 in this thread) already in the catelog? Is it

Synodontis sp(5)

?

Jools

I'm pretty sure fish 1 is NOT the same species as

Synodontis sp(5)

. Can't comment on ilebrevis. S. cf. petricola would be my best guess for both fish 1, sp(5), and for that matter, Synodontis sp. cf. polli(2).

[Birger]

I am good with that for now.

[Birger]

How did that happen...my post in answer to Mats got ahead of his?

[MatsP]

Ok, so I'm going to add #2 as S. geledensis, #4 as S. greshofi, and #1 and #3 are new to the Cat-eLog?

--
Mats

[Jools]

A lot of people have been very helpful in avoiding the answer to that question, despite my attempts to ask it...

Jools

[MatsP]

In the meantime, I've added #2 and #4. It would indeed be good to have an answer to whether they are or are not species that are in the Cat-eLog.

--
Mats

[Richard B]

3 is, i believe, new to cat-e-log

& 1 would be also, but the pics under petricola will most likely need revising

[MatsP]

Ok, I will add a couple of new species, and put those pictures in.

If I can have a bit of help indicating what needs to be moved where, I will make the pictures move (but I think the "move picture" bit of code isn't quite working, so I'm not sure I can do it real soon). It would probably be best to post the changes to the "bugs and suggestions" forum.

--
Mats

[Jools]

Yeah, it's always tempting to say that something is new, but (at least when I was the sole controller), I found it vital that I checked all existing unidentified entries in that genus before adding stuff. Otherwise you end up with a bunch of new entries for the same species each added a year or three apart. The mega-genera are the worst, Corydoras, Ancistrus, Synodontis etc.

Jools

[MatsP]

Jools, I completely agree. But I think you agree that these are indeed new?

--
Mats

[Jools]

I genuinely don't know and have not really looked at it enough to form an opinion. I was just hoping some of the real experts who have kept or seen a lot of these fish would chime in on that point.

Jools

[MatsP]

Ok, so I will hold off until after the Christmas holidays is over - that way, those who happen to be away/too drunk to use a computer/to busy playing Santa/playing with their new Christmas presents or hiding from their relatives can have a chance to give their opinion...

--
Mats

[Jools]

A wise move - I will do the same although in my case it might be hiding from my drunk relatives.

Jools