one more question on L239

[abaigael04]

So my L239 that I got 2-3 months ago is still here with us. I have 2 or 3 more questions about him (and hopefully that'll be all!)
Background:
He showed some slight interest in food but didn't see him eat (didn't particularly expect to though). He then got ich and I treated with rid-ich + (per advice I got on here) which worked. Maybe 2 weeks later he got cloudy eyes so I treated with maroxy and maracyn (the mfg. said they were made to be able to treat together) for the recommended 5 days - which also worked. since the beginning of the ich treatment he has showed no real interest in food that I can see - perhaps he is much later at night (though I have a multitude of trumpet snails who will eat any excess food so I cannot tell by what is left as it is always nothing).
My main concern is he does not seem to be gaining weight at all. He must be eating something to still be alive, right? How can I be sure he is eating? (I don't want to move him out of Q if he cannot compete with his tank mates {another L239 whom I also never see eating but last I saw was fat and I've had him awhile - it is safe to assume he is eating I think though it HAS been a little while since I got a GOOD look at him}. If he is probably eating - is it most likely to be internal parasites causing his lack of weight gain? If so, what is the best broad spectrum treatment available in the US?
What I have been feeding:
mostly algae wafers ( have 2 diff. brands )
sometimes shrimp pellets and maybe once a week egg whites on rock. I was trying various veg, fruit, sea weed and maybe once a week a frozen food - none of which he has shown ANY interest in. though I would like to get him onto veg/fruit. I do have driftwood in the Q tank and some plants.
I think that is all and if I can get that cracked he will be good to go.

[krazyGeoff]

Hi Abigale,
Mine can't resist the skin of a Zucchini. They don't touch the flesh, so I cut out most of the white and leave the skin in the tank, green side up, and in the morning you can tell that they have been at it. The snails and any other things will typically eat the white bit first. I have only ever seen two of my 6 eat. Now I only feed them as the lights go out, so that the two that do come out don't get all the food.

Cheers
Geoff

[abaigael04]

He hasn't shown a liking for zucchini - or any veg yet, though I will keep trying. He is just so skinny. I am not sure if it is because he is eating only enough to live or something else? I do realize I may not see him eat but thought he'd put on more weight by now.

[krazyGeoff]

Hi Again,
So the fish is in Q? What is in there, like is it a furnished tank with wood and substrate etc?
Do you have a photo, tank and fish?

Its been a couple of months since your last post. Perhaps it is a boy and therefore won't get as fat as a gravid female??
Cheers

[DJ-don]

maybe it might have an internal infection. you could try feeding it the skin of cucmber and such suggested by Geoff and with it soak it in garlic extract that u can get at ur pet stores

[evesonevo]

I purchased s group of 4 L239's approx 2 months ago which did have have slightly hollow bellys, they're in their own tank with heavy internal power filtration which in turn means i've been able to feed heavily with courgette,catfish pellets and frozen bloodworm.
They can be seen regularly eating and the hollow bellys have gone but they aren't what you'd call fat.
The tank is heavily furnished with bogwood,caves and java fern.
Hope any of this helps.
Col.

[abaigael04]

Yes, he is still in Q (will not move him until I feel better about his health!) and have tank is fully furnished - plants, some wood, dark substrate etc. I was soaking everything in garlic but have since stopped as it didn't make him want to eat. I do think he may be a male but am not 100% sure.
I have had him since I first asked about ich - since then have been hoping he would gain weight and have just been consistently offering him foods but have not noticed him gaining much weight or any at all. He hides a lot so I am always sort of looking at him at an angle. I did notice when I was treating for ich he got 'depressed' but would have thought that would have changed by now - especially since I have 'caught' him around the tank a few hours after lights out. Algae wafers were still being eaten by snails this AM, though.
I do not have a picture, no.

I have tried zucchini but cannot get him to eat it - there are no marks on it that ever look like it is being chewed on, though I will keep adding it. Is there anything else I can do though? My other one is a male and (last I saw, they are shy fish!) was definitely fatter than this one is. His eyes are sunken in a bit- though NOT as bad as they were, which is why I am pretty sure he should have some more weight on him just not sure how to help him along. I feel I have waited a good amount of time to let him gain weight so am looking for other reasons. I have been slacking on feeding veggies over past 2 weeks - (holidays and husband broke his wrist) but will start offering them again just in case he suddenly decides to eat.

I have considered just moving him over to my 125 gal and maybe that he would 'learn' to eat but don't want him to starve in there when it will be harder for me to keep an eye on what he is eating (or not eating).
Thanks.

[apistomaster]

When I get new wild Discus and Plecos I immediately begin a combined treatment with metronidazole, flubendazole 10% powder and Hikari PraziPro(praziquantel).
I don't think any wild fish is parasite free. The metronidazole works on many internal flagellate parasites.

The other two drugs belong to a class called antihelminthics, for parasitic worms.

Praziquantel is for gill flukes, internal flukes and tapeworms.

Flubendazole is for the round worms, Nematodes.

All three have wide dosage safety margins and may be safely used at the same time.
It is normal for newly imported wild fish to have been starved often for weeks and come in pretty scrawny.
When this persists and they are eating then those ingested nutrients are probably feeding parasites.
Some fish become unable to eat in advanced severe infestations and can't be saved but some will respond quickly to the treatments and make remarkable comebacks. I doubt one treatment completely eliminates every parasite but fish immune system can keep them down at at tolerable level. I usually treat new fish for 3 weeks. Latent hatching of eggs can occur when the treatment period is too short. I treat my wild Discus with the antihelminthics every six months during their first year in my care.
I haven't tried that with plecos because as long as they breed I assume they are doing well. In getting wild Discus to spawn, the hardest part is to bring the females into breeding condition so I want them kept at as low parasite levels as is practical.
The F1 wild Discus are no more difficult to breed than hybrid domestic discus. The tank raised fish are much less subject to becoming infected with many of the worms because nearly all parasitic worms have complex life cycles involving one or more intermediate hosts unlikely to be present in an aquarium like birds, mammals and often a specific genus of snails.

You may want to try treating your L239(s) with these medications since in at least the one fish's case, I don't see how you stand to having anything to lose but everything to gain.

[abaigael04]

Thank you. Know some of those de-wormers (use on the horse) and will look them up. Hopefully they will help. Will also keep offering him veg. and hope for the best!

[apistomaster]

Thank you. Know some of those de-wormers (use on the horse) and will look them up. Hopefully they will help. Will also keep offering him veg. and hope for the best!

You are correct. I know in some countries which do not have some of these available as fish meds many use dog or pig versions of the antihelminthincs.
Flubendazole is insoluble in water but suspensions seem to work just the same. This is the most inconvenient one to find when you need it most. Chalr%s sells 10* powder at $10/10 gram and 25 grams/$20 plus postage. $10 grams is enough to treat 250 to 500 gallons depending on the dose you decide to use. Only a pinch per 10 gal kills hydras. I use about 1/2 tsp/10-20 gal of water.
One reliable source of all the antihelminthics med is:
CHARLES HARRISON FISH MEDS
charles@inkmkr.com
Work: (636) 677-1900