L128 compatibility and other questions not yet answered

[anasteso1454]

I want to know three useful pieces of info about L128 blue phantom. There is one I could buy that is about 1 inch long. I have read on this webiste that they get just over 7 inches long and I am assuming this to be correct. I have searched the site and have not found this information yet.

1) is L128 a good tankmate with ornamental shrimp? (eg: red cherry shrimp)

2) how fast or slow does it grow to full size?

3) is a pH below 6.0 ok for this fish?

[Hitch]

1) yes it will e fine with RCS, all plecos work fine with dwarf shrimps.

3) according to the profile, it is fine in pH of 6-7, how much below 6 are we talking here?

[apistomaster]

Only about one inch long?
Specimens that small should receive a lot of TLC.
Warm 82-84*F clean nitrite free water.
I would treat it with flubendazole, praziquantal and metronidazole.
I would feed it live black worms, frozen blood worms, earthworm and Spirulina stick foods in small amounts frequently.
Provide plenty of wood cover and an air stone in addition to your filters.
No carbon or organic scavenging resins should be used during treatment except a few small Tetras to help clean up excess bits of food.. The treatments are preemptive prophylactic in intent.
Don't try keeping anything else with it until after completing this quarantine and treatment regime and only after you are certain it is feeding well. A 10 gal tank would be big enough for this phase.

[naturalart]

Hello anasteso, I just purchased a L128 at that same 1inch size, from a very good LFS. It has been one tough little fish from the very start. I Q'd it for a couple of weeks and watched for parasites. I didn't treat with anything and recently transfered it to a 55g. with a couple of synos 4 times its size, and an ancistrus 3 times its size. Of course I rearranged the 'furniture' to give the little one plenty of escape routes and refuges. With a feeding regime similar to what apistomaster suggest, he(it) is doing fine 2 weeks in. Plenty of spunk and curiosity.

If you're reading this apistomaster, are you recommending the chemical treatment assuming it might be a wild caught animal? I kinda felt the animal I got was possibly tank raised? There have never been any signs of parasite or infection, and all the fish its been housed with up to now are all healthy. Any insight would be much appreciated.

Also apistomaster, since you are in my 'neck of the woods' I am thinking of adding a school of small cories to a 15g. planted. Do you have/know of any tank raised C. habrosus, and/or suggest any other 'pygmy' species? I am aware of pygmaeus and hastatus.

[anasteso1454]

thanks for the advice guys.

apistomaster: I am actually unfamiliar with any of those medications except in their common names (sorry).

Hitch: you are saying that this pleco will not eat my RCS? I was not sure if plecos and ornamental shrimp would be ok b/c I read that some are carnivorous and the L128 is omnivorous, and there are pretty small juvenile RCS in the tank.
Also, I planned on the pH being at around a 5.2-5.5 because of a pair of licorice gouramis I have in there (Parosphromenos deissneri).

Does anyone know how fast the L128 will reach adult size? Since this guy is so small I want to start him out in a small tank, but then move him up when he gets bigger.

[apistomaster]

I'm made the assumption these were wild caught L128 because I have never heard of any commercial breeders of this species but such small specimens from the wild are also very unusual. Perhaps someone has begun breeding them in farms in SE Asia? I know of such efforts being done with the expensive and in high demand Hypancistrus zebra. I treat all wild Plecos and Discus I get as I described in my previous post without waiting for any symptoms. All wild fish are infected with many different parasites and become weakened from the stresses they are subjected to from capture through working their way up the distribution chain getting weaker at every change of custody. However, many better importer initiate the treatments I described or similar regime. In such cases the final buyer may actually receive rather healthy fish. Still, all fancy plecos about 1" long are delicate fish and do not handle stressors well. Even larger specimens of wild L128 require some coddling initially.

I have been breeding Corydoras hastatus and C. habrosus in quantities until recently and I have sold most of mine save enough to rebuild colonies. Other projects have taken their place with my space being as limited as it is when I move on to new species it means letting something else go. Hastatus and Habrosus are the only dwarf Corys I like. Don't care much for C. pygmeus but these three are about the only truly dwarf Corydoras species. The closely related Aspidoras pauciradiatus is a very nice dwarf species. The difference is in the number of pairs of barbels each genus has but they are otherwise basically the same.

To learn more about the medications I recommend searching the archives and Google. Hikari Prazipro and Metronidazole are available from well stocked fish shops. Flubendazole is harder to find although I do know of a reliable source:
Charles Harrison Fish Meds, charles@inkmkr.com, has it in 10 g @ $10 size and 25 grams 10% powder for $20.00, plus priority postage. The larger size is enough to treat about 500-1000 gallons.

[MatsP]

I too doubt that they are tank-bred on a large commercial scale. They may either be locally(ish) bred, or the fishermen have realized that the exporters will pay even for the smaller fish.

I think they grow fairly well as small fish, but once they reach about 5" they slow down. Mine, that I bought at about 3.5-4.25" SL (97-113mm SL) [about 6" total length] does not appear to have grown much at all in the 6 months I've had them. They are a bit fatter than when I got them, but otherwise doesn't seem to actually "grow" much.

I'd expect a 1" fish will reach 2" in less than a year tho', and about 4" in three years time.

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Mats

[naturalart]

Thanks for your input apistomaster. I understand your processing of wild caught plecos. But now my interest is peaked. I'll ask the LFS I got it from weather he knows its origination. My bet is someone is breeding them on a low scale because this fish shows 'tank savy' behavior; it doesn't fly into the glass when alarmed and works at dodging the net.... ok, I'll stop there, I think I'm anthropomorphizing a bit.

I'll post what I find out on this thread, if thats appropriate?

I avoided the aspidorids because my limited knowledge told me they are very hyper and require high oxygen saturation and flow, am I wrong?

[MatsP]

Seems unlikely that there would be L128 breeders in both Louisiana and Washington.

Keeping a tank at 5.2-5.5 can be quite tricky, I'd be VERY careful with the stocking levels of this sort of tank, as higher stocking level is more likely to allow the pH to crash.

Edit: And I believe pH below 6 is not really ideal for fish from the Orinoco basin - at least not the sections of Orinoco that this fish comes from - it is certainly not a blackwater species.

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Mats

[anasteso1454]

thanks Mat,

from what I have read so far it seems that i should go ahead and put him in my discus tank, with ph of about 6.0-6.5. My original plan was to put him (1") in a 2-3 gal nano tank until he got bigger.

my original statement about ph was incorrect. My target range is actually 5.5-6.0. I have as yet to figure out how to do this, but I have started a new thread for that topic itself b/c it does not really pertain to this thread.

[anasteso1454]

A couple of further questions about L128 that I did not find on the species index page.

1) is it possible to sex a 1" specimen, and what are the distinguishing features?

2) minimum aquarium dimensions for one (may get a pair if it would work)?
my current setup is only 29LX12W (inside dimensions), but I plan (hope!) to eventually upgrade to a 90 gallon (48LX18W)

[MatsP]

A couple of further questions about L128 that I did not find on the species index page.

1) is it possible to sex a 1" specimen, and what are the distinguishing features?

Whilst I don't think it's entirely impossible, it would be extremely difficult. First of all, any distinguishing features would be hard to spot on such a small fish. Second, they are FAR from sexually mature - these fish reach maturity at about 4" in length. And unlike most mammals, (most) fish do not have externally different sexual organs, so there is little difference in that region. It would probably be possible to say after disecting the fish, but that's a pretty pointless, as it would also kill it...

Even large fish can be quite hard to figure out, as you may find if you do a search on L128 sexing, or some such in the forum.

I'd say the best choice is to play the odds and perhaps do swapsies if need be: Get 4-5 young fish, and let them grow up, see what happens. I'd probably pick a large and a small one to

2) minimum aquarium dimensions for one (may get a pair if it would work)?
my current setup is only 29LX12W (inside dimensions), but I plan (hope!) to eventually upgrade to a 90 gallon (48LX18W)

I'd say you need about 36" x 18" base area, and at least 12" water level. But it will take your fish some time to get to the size where a 29" x 12" base area is too small, so it's not urgent to get a new tank.

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Mats

[apistomaster]

If you want to keep 4-5 L128 you should use at the very least a 40 gal breeder. 36 X 18 X 16 High inches but I would recommend a 75 gal over the 40 breeder for that many adults or a few more.
No pleco species can be sexed at 1 inch or so. Even fish that are 2/3 grown may only be accurately sexed by dissecting them.
If you want to get into breeding any of the cool plecos you must learn patience that lasts years.

[MatsP]

Larry is right - for a group of 4-5 to a size where they can be sexed, you need a reasonably big tank - 48 x 18 base would be good. I think a 90 gal 48 x 18 base tank would be about 26" tall. These fish don't need particularly deep water, so it would probably be better to choose a tank that is less tall, and wider instead [obviously subject to space available]. The 75 gal tank that Larry suggests is the same base [assuming "standard" size tanks], but 3 inches lower. It should be a little bit less expensive.

Obviously, a bigger tank is nearly always better, but bigger height is pretty pointless for bottomdwelling fish. Mine are very rarely even on the glass, never mind "High up".

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Mats

[apistomaster]

A US standard 75 gal does have a 48 X 18 inch base and is 20" tall. Since it can take these plecos years to think about spawning if they aren't quite full grown some peaceful Cichlids may be kept with them like Discus, wild Angels or Mesonauta spp so there is something else to watch without affecting the plecos at all. And the plecos will come out to eat with the other fish since the L128 pretty much like the same foods. That is how I go about things anyway.

[MatsP]

A US standard 75 gal does have a 48 X 18 inch base and is 20" tall. Since it can take these plecos years to think about spawning if they aren't quite full grown some peaceful Cichlids may be kept with them like Discus, wild Angels or Mesonauta spp so there is something else to watch without affecting the plecos at all. And the plecos will come out to eat with the other fish since the L128 pretty much like the same foods. That is how I go about things anyway.

Yes, I keep some other fish in my L128 tank too - all catfish, however, so not that much "life" in the tank during lights-on...

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Mats