Advice on keeping and breeding Phyllonemus typus?

[emartin]

Advice on keeping and breeding Phyllonemus typus? I won a bag of four wildcaught supposedly 2m2f at a local auction for $20usd but now knowing that they are wildcaught I am thinking of putting them in their own 20g-high or 20g-Long (or even a 15g) if you guys agree that those sizes would be fine for them with some neon tetras or other small but colorful fish to keep the tank nice.

Thanks,
~Ed

[Birger]

A twenty gallon would be small for four of these if you want all to survive, if that is all you have put in sand with lots of caves(not just four) so they can be separated as much as possible. I would even put in vertical pieces of slate or something similar to help to divide the tank further. They will fight...not just the males all can be combative and they do not pair up on a permanent basis. If at all possible a tank with a footprint of at least 18 x 36 would be better.

About the neons or other small fish...that would make the typus very happy to have a school of neons in with them they would find them most tasty.

Here is a Cotm on this species and you could do a search in the African forum as well as there are some threads pertaining to this species.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/cotm/cotm. ... cle_id=365

These are a great fish but there are a few certain things that need to be done to keep them from beating each other or going hungry.

Birger

[emartin]

So you think a 30g-breeder tank would be good for them (unless I have more caves than there are catfish it sounded like you were saying in a 20gal-long or 29gal)? I was thinking of getting two more by the way from the same importer that donated the fish I bought. If I get two more, should I get another supposed male and female pair, or just two random, two females, two males, etc?

Also, since I have never kept shellies before would they (except for fry that stray too far from the shells) do well with the catfish? Lamprologus multifasciatus, L. occelatus, and L. brevis are available locally to me.

Right now the four cats are in my 120g (4ftx2ftx2ft) with various malawi haplochromines and peacocks, 3 clown loaches and 3 true siamese algae eaters. There are 3 large caves in there, some anubias plants and driftwood so they should be fine in there for a little while. I may add more pvc pipes in there though for the meantime and move the clownloaches out into another tank.

What other cichlid or non cichlid fish would do well with them?

Would albino bushy nose pleco, true siamese algae eaters, badis badis, dario dario, cardinal/neon tetra, etc get along or be obvious and iminent snacks or just possible snacks (for the tetras)?

~Ed

[Birger]

So you think a 30g-breeder tank would be good for them (unless I have more caves than there are catfish it sounded like you were saying in a 20gal-long or 29gal)?

You should have more caves than catfish no matter what the size of the tank is...what is important is to give as much substrate area as possible.It is best to give the dimensions of a tank instead of the volume, for example it would be better to have a 40 gal that can have a long wide footprint that is lower instead of a 40 gal that is tall and skinny that would leave no space for territories.

I was thinking of getting two more by the way from the same importer that donated the fish I bought. If I get two more, should I get another supposed male and female pair, or just two random, two females, two males, etc?

Getting two more is not a bad idea, if they can pick males and females apart might as well get a pair but this is not an easy job even when you have worked with them for awhile so they may end up sort of random even with the best of intentions. The only sure way to get a pair would be to catch two that are holed up together after they were in a tank for awhile.

Also, since I have never kept shellies before would they (except for fry that stray too far from the shells) do well with the catfish? Lamprologus multifasciatus, L. occelatus, and L. brevis are available locally to me.

Well there are three things with this scenario, one the small shellies especially the females could be another nice snack, do not underestimate the size of a typus mouth. The second is that the shellies will protect their territory quite viciously especially from a small catfish they know to be predatory in nature(and they will know) so there will be even more competition for substrate space. Third the typus may end up starving if there are too many aggressive cichlids when it comes to feeding time.

ght now the four cats are in my 120g (4ftx2ftx2ft) with various malawi haplochromines and peacocks, 3 clown loaches and 3 true siamese algae eaters. There are 3 large caves in there, some anubias plants and driftwood so they should be fine in there for a little while. I may add more pvc pipes in there though for the meantime and move the clownloaches out into another tank.

That is a good size tank for them but an odd mix of fish...it is a good idea to pull the loaches and I would not mix these typus with the siamese algae eaters...I just do not think they would go well together. The haps and peacocks are not too bad as they generally swim higher in the water column than other bottom hugging cichlids unless there is a huge horde of them, again the typus may not get their share.

What other c*****d or non c*****d fish would do well with them?

Other tangy cats such as some of the other small synodontis (lucipinis,petricola,grandiops or mutipunctatus)from the lake. Not other catfish that again will compete directly for substrate space.

Would albino bushy nose pl*co, true siamese algae eaters, badis badis, dario dario, cardinal/neon tetra, etc get along or be obvious and iminent snacks or just possible snacks (for the tetras)?

Just a regular run of the mill BN would be fine, already mentioned the SAE, badis,dario,neon,cardinal all possible snacks but also the water conditions needed for some of these fish are on the opposite end of the scale when compared to the typus.

As a last note be sure to feed the typus after the cichlids have had a chance to settle down after lights out...what do you plan to feed the typus besides all these tasty little fish?
Given lots of cover and some time to settle in the typus will start to come out more often as long as they know they can quickly dash in somewhere.

Birger

[emartin]

Hi, I decided I am going to put them in a 55g tank. I believe I know enough thanks to you and people with experience breeding them on another forum.

Here are questions I came up with on another forum that if you can I'd like your best answer/opinion to them:

Basically here's what I want to know for sure:
Unless I get a hold of the larger shell dwelling species or keep altolamprologus again to just not keep ANY shell dwellers or risk the females in particular but all of them being killed over time. So unless I come across Lamprologus callipterus, Telmatochromis sp, etc...to just not bother with shellies... Correct? Or would the females of any shell dweller EVEN the larger ones like Lamprologus callipterus where even though the females stay small the males reach about 6" STILL be vulnerable at night (with the males unable to protect them at night????).

I was advised to stay away from the birchardi type neolamps for the sake of the catfish. Does that apply to other neolamps like tetracephalus, sexfasciatus, leleupi, buescheri that aren't shell dwellers and aren't brichardi types? Can the non brichardi types be bred in the tank or am I best advised to just keep single specimens and are they like mouthbrooders where they will hybridize with any other similar species?

With the Julies, can they be bred in the tank? By themselves with the catfish or can a trio of neolamp be in there or just a single neolamp specimen?

Can Cyps be kept with any of the above after growing them out to size?

Any small, relatively peaceful mouthbrooder would probably do well in the tank if I don't go with any tanganyika cichlids correct? Like for example, Labidochromis caeruleus, Pseudocrenilabrus sp., vics, peacocks? Just as long as I don't go with any super aggressive mouth brooders like tropheus that can pose threats to the catfish?

[Birger]

Basically here's what I want to know for sure:
Unless I get a hold of the larger shell dwelling species or keep altolamprologus again to just not keep ANY shell dwellers or risk the females in particular but all of them being killed over time. So unless I come across Lamprologus callipterus, Telmatochromis sp, etc...to just not bother with shellies... Correct? Or would the females of any shell dweller EVEN the larger ones like Lamprologus callipterus where even though the females stay small the males reach about 6" STILL be vulnerable at night (with the males unable to protect them at night????).

I was advised to stay away from the birchardi type neolamps for the sake of the catfish. Does that apply to other neolamps like tetracephalus, sexfasciatus, leleupi, buescheri that aren't shell dwellers and aren't brichardi types? Can the non brichardi types be bred in the tank or am I best advised to just keep single specimens and are they like mouthbrooders where they will hybridize with any other similar species?

With the Julies, can they be bred in the tank? By themselves with the catfish or can a trio of neolamp be in there or just a single neolamp specimen?

When it comes to cichlids...any that will protect a territory near the bottom is a threat to these catfish. I am not saying they will not coexist, but the cichlids will not like the catfish.

Can Cyps be kept with any of the above after growing them out to size?

Cyprochromis are a good match for these catfish as long as they are not too small...they swim higher up and do not keep a territory near the bottom.

Any small, relatively peaceful mouthbrooder would probably do well in the tank if I don't go with any tanganyika c*****ds correct? Like for example, Labidochromis caeruleus, Pseudocrenilabrus sp., vics, peacocks? Just as long as I don't go with any super aggressive mouth brooders like tropheus that can pose threats to the catfish?

Yes it would probably work as long as there is not so many they overwhelm the cats.

I have even kept some with Steatocranus casuarius and the typus would raid the nest but sometimes would pay for it when the male caught up to them and I have kept them with other cichlids, but I ended up with quite a few so I could experiment a bit. You only have a few and if you wish to also breed them you will have to cater to them for awhile.

A major concern with these cats is minimizing how much they beat each other.

[emartin]

Thanks for the info.

Also, one last question. A very reliable and well known breeder (though I will not name names) told me he saw a friend of his Phyllonemus catfish that was pretty old at 8-9". Is that possible? Or was it a different species of Phyllonemus or are they mistaken on the identity?

I do know many fish including catfish can get huge in captivity if they are allowed to but 8-9" seems a bit ridiculous for a fish every says gets about 4" maximum.

~Ed

[Richard B]

Thanks for the info.
Also, one last question. A very reliable and well known breeder (though I will not name names) told me he saw a friend of his Phyllonemus catfish that was pretty old at 8-9". Is that possible? Or was it a different species of Phyllonemus or are they mistaken on the identity?
I do know many fish including catfish can get huge in captivity if they are allowed to but 8-9" seems a bit ridiculous for a fish every says gets about 4" maximum.
~Ed

The 3 known species of Phyllonemus are all small. There is a thread somewhere in PC where there is talk about unknown species being seen in the lake at far greater sizes but AFAIK none have found their way into the trade - it is possible that your friends friend had one of these - Sidguppy contributed or at least commented to the previous thread i think. It would be amazing if a pic with something to define the scale of this fish were to be available - any chance d'ya think?

[Richard B]

Read this thread http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... mus#p97304

[emartin]

Thanks for all the information.

For tankmates I bought 4 f1 Julidochromis marleri Burundi and 4 f1 Neolamprologus leleupi. They're too small to join the catfish now (1.5-2", but I'm worried the catfish will look at them as spaghetti ) so the catfish will have the tank to themselves...though I may throw some 2-3" malawi haplochromine juveniles in there in the meantime.

~Ed

[emartin]

I have a quick question...


When a pair does form, will they protect the juveniles from the cichlids and the other catfish? And how long should I leave the juveniles in there with them? I'm thinking I should remove them as soon as I seem them free swimming.

~Ed

[emartin]

Basically I am wondering that if I see the pair holding, etc, should I remove them from the tank so the other cats don't mess with them? Or are they fine until the fry are free swimming, etc?


And what would be a good first food for them? I figured because of their larger mouths that flakes should be fine but I want to double check with you guys.

Thanks,
~Ed

[Birger]

Basically I am wondering that if I see the pair holding, etc, should I remove them from the tank so the other cats don't mess with them? Or are they fine until the fry are free swimming, etc?

Not to many fry will survive with other fish in the tank. I try to leave them with the parents as long as possible but they are easily separated, when scooped with a net they will often spit the young out in the net, but will also pick their own young up again.

And what would be a good first food for them? I figured because of their larger mouths that flakes should be fine but I want to double check with you guys.

I have begun using live worms(banana worms, micro worms) in the past I have used minced frozen bloodworms with great results, others have used BBS. When a little bigger( 3 weeks) I also get them going on NLS grow. I would stay away from flake.

If you wish to rear some young keeping them in a species only tank is better until one gets used to some of their habits. I use bloodworms, small fish and NLS to condition.

Birger

[emartin]

Well they are going to have the 55g to themselves for a few months definitely. The tangs I got are only about 1" long and no doubt will get eaten if I put them all together.

Thanks for all the info.

~Ed