Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members?

[Marc van Arc]

No true scientific explanation I'm afraid, but it's the part that goes beyond the cleithral/humeral process (hence "post"). It's rasp like and sits opposite the pectoral spine. I can advise anyone not to grab the fish there for it'll squeeze its pectoral spine towards the rasp and that hurts. The post cleithral process is known in Doradidae and exactly that fact caused scientists to put Liosomadoras in that family. The fact that it shared everything else with Auchenipteridae was overlooked initially.*
In the picture the pcp is the whitish part beyond the gill pointing backwards , forming a kind of V-shape together with the pectoral spine.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=7476

* See also http://www.planetcatfish.com/cotm/cotm. ... cle_id=381 , second paragraph ( I knew I'd written something alike before )

[Marc van Arc]

BTW: I'd prefer the picture over the link. How do I change that pls?

[Jools]

Thanks for the info.

BTW: I'd prefer the picture over the link. How do I change that pls?

Use

Code: Select all

[img]http://www.planetcatfish.com/images/full/auchenipteridae/liosomadoras/oncinus/15.jpg[/img]

.



Jools

[Jools]

So should, do you think, I change the anatomy diagram to show a caption of "Humeral / PCP" ? Are the two words true synonyms?

Jools

[Marc van Arc]

The humeral or cleithral process are synonyms afaik.
We're talking here about a post cleithral (humeral) process, which is different from the above.
Perhaps HH might shine a professional light on this matter?

[Jools]

Right, I am confused, so here is a pic:

PCP

Red or Green or am I very confused?

Jools

[Marc van Arc]

Red = pcp

[Marc van Arc]

Couldn't quite tackle the above code yet, but here's an Agamyxis for comparison:

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=7483

[Jools]

OK, I thought so but I didn't really understand the description. Here's the pic for everyone.



Jools

[MatsP]

Couldn't quite tackle the above code yet...<snip>

Once you have pasted the link in, mark the link and click the "img" button just above the text box.
Or just type in the

Code: Select all

[img]...[/img]

at either end of the link. If you think of the http:... stuff as the species name, it's very similar to clog-tags that you use for cat-elog links. I hope this helps.

Edit: Jools was actually picking the image up from a different way - I'm sure that works TOO, but using "picture 15" is subject to that picture still being picture 15 in a years time when some new, better images have been posted to that species in the Cat-eLog. And whilst Jools have code to figure out the links to articles, it doesn't check the usage in the forum. A link to the picture ID will only fail if the picture is removed altogether.

--
Mats

[Martin S]

OK, so have just ordered three

Ageneiosus sp(3)

from Wildwoods, sex unknown, to arrive tomorrow by 'mail order'. I still plan to get there for a visit, but won't get a chance for a while and wanted to get these while they were still available and to give them a chance to settle in before moving across the other cats from their current home. Will get some pictures when they are in.

[EDIT]
They have arrived, and are being acclimatised as I type this. TL is about 3.5" but considering they have been in a box all night are looking good. I'll get the in the tank and take some pictures and maybe some video (depending on how active they are) later this evening.
[/EDIT]
Martin

[Marc van Arc]

Nice one Martin, well done.
Try to take a picture with all 3 of them on it and maybe* I could provide you with the gender of your specimens (* 3.5" may be just too small, but we'll see).

[Martin S]

Thanks Marc.
I've tried to get some photos and video, but they are very inactive and I need to find some surface cover as the plant growth hasn't kicked in yet.
Looking at them in detail, I can't see any signs, though as you say 3.5" is quite small. They were feeding on krill, lancefish and chopped cockle, but don't seem interested as yet. I'll get some live river shrimp tomorrow as want to get them feeding sooner rather than later.
My camera is away for the weekend, but may try and get some video - they come out and cruise about when the lights go out, yet spend the day just laying around on the sand doing nothing.
Cheers
Martin

[Marc van Arc]

Please bear in mind that these are surface feeders - or at least food that's floating -; they aren't very able to grab food from the bottom.
And indeed feed when lights out initially.

[Martin S]

Yes, I'd gathered that from their lights out cruising. I hadn't considered that re: feeding rivershrimp though. I'm guessing the freeze dried river shrimp would be a better option as these will float for a while?
Thanks
Martin

[Marc van Arc]

It took my specimens quite some time before they accepted (large) flakes. They were much more fond of bloodworms, but even that took some time. So, don't worry if they become skinny the next few days. Mine did so too and I was really scared I'd loose them. They seem to know pretty well when to start eating in order to avoid starvation.
Don't forcefeed, don't overfeed. In case of left overs, use the siphon and add clean water (obviously )
Bloodworms may be the best bet to start off with, but experiment with as many foods as you like. You'll sooner or later find out what they like and don't like.

[Martin S]

Well, that has to be the shortest time I've ever kept a fish
Just got home with my daughter to find all three Ageneiosus sp(3) dead as doornails.
No idea why - water parameters are all OK, plenty of water movement and I even added in an airstone to make sure.
One looked a bit odd in how it swum this morning but didn't look odd enough to worry. The shop has had them for months, so it must be either the overnight shipping or something in the new tank I've missed.
That was an expensive few days
If I go back there and they still have the last two I might be tempted, but will need to be sure all is well before I do.
Am seriously upset, not at the cost, but at what i did wrong
Martin

[Marc van Arc]

Martin,
Very, very sorry to read this.
I have to go shortly, but one question I'd like to ask you: did you put them into your new tank?
If so, it could be possible that the change of water (months at the lfs opposed to a "new" - in all aspects - environment) combined with the overnight shipping caused their death. It may have just been too much for them.
Give it a thought and let me know if this makes sense to you.
Whatever you do, don't be too hard on yourself. Even if you did something wrong, you surely didn't do it on purpose.

[Martin S]

Marc
If I'm honest, as soon as I found them I knew that what you say is what happened - the stress of an overnight transfer, and then being dunked into a 'new' tank - you'd think after keeping fish on and off for the past thirty years, I'd have known better
I intended to seed the tank with water/sand from my existing tank, but was trying to avoid transferring MTS across, so used new sand, plants and a mix of used and new bogwood.
I know it was not an intentional error, but the more I go over it, I know it was an aviodable one.
I'm now going to have hold back on transferring the rest of the fish over as I couldn't bear to lose any of my remaining cats.
As always, thanks Marc
Martin

[MatsP]

Martin,

I know you are partly at fault, but if your water is in perfect condition, doesn't Wildwoods offer a "will survive in your tank for at least X hours" on their delivery service? I'm sure it's 48 hours if not more.

It would be worth trying a "warranty claim" if you are still within the alloted timeframe.

--
Mats

[Martin S]

Mats
Knowing they have had them for at least 5 months, I couldn't even ask the question as although the overnight shipping may have been very partially a cause, the shock of new tank syndrome was I am sure the over-riding factor in their demise. The guarantee is only 24 hours anyway.
I will just put it down to stupidity on my part, and when I get to go there and if they have the remaining two, I may be tempted...
Martin

[Martin S]

Well, I am now (again!) the owner of a shoal of seven

Centromochlus romani

which I picked up earlier today whilst out with my daughter. I took all the fish they had left, and know there are both sexes present, though I have not, as yet, counted how many of each. These have gone into the smaller tank, and currently share it with 3

Corydoras davidsandsi

, 1

Doras punctatus

(while the cut on the tip of his nose heals), a small Chaetostoma sp which I have yet to identify and a banjo cat that definitely is not your typical run of the mill banjo - again, I need to get some pics of that for ID, but that's another day!
I was keen to have auchenipterids again in this tank, although I want it to be a more 'normal' community tank so it looks lived in at not just lights out, these stay small but are active to feed with lights on or off.
Martin

[Marc van Arc]

I'm very pleased to read this. Good job

[MatsP]

Martin, I think I've got two females from you, so if yours breed [which seems you have a knack for...], maybe I could get a male to go with my current two...

--
Mats

[Martin S]

Yes, I think I have more males than females so will definitely sort you one out next time we get together.
Martin

[Marc van Arc]

Something completely different:
Imo transformed males of

Entomocorus gameroi

don't live very long. From my small group of 5 (2 males/3 females) both men have died within a year after complete transformation. All females are still doing fine.
Anyone who could confirm or deny this observation?

[Jools]

I Haven't lost any yet but I notice they are much more frantic and appear to require much more food than females oddly. You never see a fat one.

Jools

[Marc van Arc]

You never see a fat one.

That doesn't seem to be the problem over here. It seems to be a matter of one day swimming happily around and the next day it just stops.
I did notice they became less active towards the females. And contrary to my ageing C. perugiae - whose backs become "curved" - these's nothing to be seen that could indicate ageing in E. gameroi; see picture.

[grokefish]

Interesting stuff:-

http://cires.colorado.edu/limnology/pub ... Pub101.pdf

[Marc van Arc]

Interesting stuff:
http://cires.colorado.edu/limnology/pub ... Pub101.pdf

Indeed! Yet the conclusion of this species being an "annual" fish would only go for the males, as my females are still alive and kicking (well, sort of as they can't really kick). The big question is if that would make any sense?

Meanwhile very little happened over here wrt Auchenipteridae, so I took some "lights out" pictures last night just to give you an impression of how things are atm.

Male Tetranematichthys about to take off

Both females Trachelyopterus fisheri + A. coracoideus

T. galeatus (foreground), T. fisheri (right), Ageneiosus sp 3 (middle; seen from behind) and Tetranematichthys female (top right)