need help id the gender of this L25

[samoht]

this pc is purchased as a L25, and i need some help with its gender identification.
this pc is approximately 12inch TL.







i need to know its gender to start some breeding project.

thanks a million.

[samoht]

here are some full body shots





generally, this pc has a rather bulky body, some ondontodal growth on its pectoral fins, and has 7 soft dorsal rays.

thanks once again.

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Hi

It would help with photos from above, but I think this is a male.
There are people (ElTofi) here that knows more about this species than I do, but I don't think that females as that kind of odontal grow.

Cristoffer

[samoht]

Hi

It would help with photos from above, but I think this is a male.
There are people (ElTofi) here that knows more about this species than I do, but I don't think that females as that kind of odontal grow.

Cristoffer

thanks Cristoffer. I will try to snap a top view.

[mattfaulkner]

Isnt it a Pseudacanthicus spinosus?

[fish fodder]

Isnt it a Pseudacanthicus spinosus?

Looks like it. cant see any pics of the tail so cant be sure, although the eye does look a little L25ish

[samoht]

Isnt it a Pseudacanthicus spinosus?

Isnt it a Pseudacanthicus spinosus?

Looks like it. cant see any pics of the tail so cant be sure, although the eye does look a little L25ish

ever got this comment that its a spinosus before, but this pc was labeled L25
the tail pic can be seen in the second post which showed the fish in full side view. and its tail surely does not match that of a spinosus

just in case those pics can't be viewed...

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Well...I would like to see the head shape.

Like this:

Female, narrow head and not so much odontodes around the head.


Male, slender, broader head, and odontodes around the head.


I'm not saying you can use this to sex you're L25, but there are some general differences.

Or we have to wait for ElTofi...

[Cristoffer Forssander]

just in case those pics can't be viewed...

[/quote]

Perhaps L24?

[ElTofi]

without being the specialist Cristoffer says, I would say it's a L25, with a very pale color, due IMO to the blue bottom of the tank...

I agree with Cristoffer on the explanations about gender from the body shape. Moreover, and based only on my experiences (don't ever think it's a general rule, but just my opinion), I would say that 2 things make me think of a male :

1. the odontode grow on the hard first ray of the pectoral fins is very thick and long. On my female, the odontodes are here, without any doubt, but much less thick and much less long.
2. the kind of "supra occipital hook" on the head basement, right before the dorsal fin. I don't know if it's a criteria, but my 2 males are very well "hooked" like this one too, while my female isn't at all.

I guess a few pictures from above (like Cristoffer's) would be very usefull.

[ElTofi]

Isnt it a Pseudacanthicus spinosus?

I've seen a few P. spinosus and they always looked "greyish with black spots" more than "redish"...

[Cristoffer Forssander]

ElTofi

Have you seen differences in the dorsal fin in L25?

In L114 males has a much more bigger dorsal "sail" than the female.


Cristoffer

[samoht]

without being the specialist Cristoffer says, I would say it's a L25, with a very pale color, due IMO to the blue bottom of the tank...

I agree with Cristoffer on the explanations about gender from the body shape. Moreover, and based only on my experiences (don't ever think it's a general rule, but just my opinion), I would say that 2 things make me think of a male :

1. the odontode grow on the hard first ray of the pectoral fins is very thick and long. On my female, the odontodes are here, without any doubt, but much less thick and much less long.
2. the kind of "supra occipital hook" on the head basement, right before the dorsal fin. I don't know if it's a criteria, but my 2 males are very well "hooked" like this one too, while my female isn't at all.

I guess a few pictures from above (like Cristoffer's) would be very usefull.

Thanks Eltofi, so glad that its really a L25 its color has been like this even when its with the previous owner.

it would be rather difficult to snap a top view picture of it, cos it is always hiding in a 'cave' (actually a vase) which i placed in the tank. unless i am to catch it out for photo shoot.

it seems pretty difficult here in my country to find a female L25, we have a handful of them which turned out to be males (based on very bushy ondontonal growth on pectoral), the search goes on...

thanks once again.

[samoht]

Have you seen differences in the dorsal fin in L25?

In L114 males has a much more bigger dorsal "sail" than the female.

Cristoffer

indeed the gender of L25 is rather difficult to differentiate...unlike L97, L114 and even spinosus...whereby the finnages does look different.

[samoht]

Hi

It would help with photos from above, but I think this is a male.
There are people (ElTofi) here that knows more about this species than I do, but I don't think that females as that kind of odontal grow.

Cristoffer

managed to snap a few pic from top, quality too very fantastic though





hope they are useful
thanks a million

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Well.... I cant say anything looking at the head, but the pectoral fins has a lot of odontodes. As I undertand from talking to ElTofi, females don't have this kind of odontodal grow.

But I would say male... but I'm suprised that the head is so small...


Cristoffer

[samoht]

Well.... I cant say anything looking at the head, but the pectoral fins has a lot of odontodes. As I undertand from talking to ElTofi, females don't have this kind of odontodal grow.

But I would say male... but I'm suprised that the head is so small...

Cristoffer

thanks Cristoffer, more or less i guess this pc is a male fish, from the ondontodal growth to the genital papilla of the fish...i have checked with a friend who usually id through the papilla of the fish, and he indicated that it is sharp and pointed, therefore a male.