Oldest Synodontis in Glossop/UK/World?

[mampam]

I posted a question about my Synodontis nigrita type fish a couple of years ago but there wasn't much response.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =8&t=20809

In short I have had them for 29 years and they were adult when I got them. They live in what looks like the filthiest fishtank ever, but it had an almost complete water change 15 years ago and I changed a gallon of water in 1998. "Unhealthy" is an adjective that is often used when people see the aquarium, but they do seem to be very happy in it and i don't think disease has ever been an issue with them. I'm not saying that you should keep Synodontis nigrita like this, just that they might live for a very long time if you do.

Anyway my question is; does anybody have Synodontis older than mine?

My Synodontis have lived in here since 1980

[Bas Pels]

Do away with being thrifty, and grantthe fish some water

after 15 years they are entitled to it - one can not even see whether the fiash are still alive or not

[mampam]

I think they like being hidden like that, just my opinion. I've seen so many well established fish die through the shock of having their conditions changed I'm reluctant to do anything that might shock them.

[L number Banana]

I'm reluctant to do anything that might shock them.

Understandable but you could simply use the same ph and temperature for your water changes. A small amount at a time. I have natural tanks but they're clear as glass. Perhaps borrowing a really nice filter would be a good way to at least see the fish. Many fish live an extremely long time with traditionally filtered and water-changed tanks, so I don't think it's the lack of clean water that promotes longevity. Just filling the tank up would be nice for the fish as it would allow more swimming space.

I adore synos, if you ever decide to clean up the tank, please post some more pics - they'd be cool to see.

[mampam]

Around 1995 I was feeling quite bad about the state of that tank, but when I went to the Black Volta river it was even murkier than this, and it smelled vile, but it was full of synos. I don't know what PH that water is but I guess it is very low, the tap water here is 7.0 but the tank's only furnishings are two peices of Malaysian bogwood that have probably made it very acidic. If I added water to this tank it would be at the rate of a litre a week, but because the silicone that holds the thing together looks as if it is beginning to perish near the top I don't want to fill the tank up because if it starts leaking I will have to move the fish and I think they would die.

I didn't post here because I wanted opinions about my husbandry. My synos bred in that tank and they have been there for almost 30 years, which I think is much longer than they usually live in clean, clear, filtered water so apart from the aesthetics I'm inclined to think that I have done well by these fish. I also think my attitude to the water colour differs from yours; you think it shoud be clear because it's better for us to see the fish, but I think it should be murky because it makes the fish feel more secure, less stressed and therefore maybe live longer.

So, my question is: have my fish lived a particularly long time or is three decades plus normal for synos?

[Richard B]

30 years is a good lifespan for a medium sized riverine syno. I recall that a S.Flavi was recorded at 35 years & this is a small sp. Additionally there was the big granny Sid has experience of that is estimated by people in the know to be 45+ - but this is a bigger sp.

[L number Banana]

mampam wrote:

you think it shoud be clear because it's better for us to see the fish,

No I don't. Blackwater's not clear, either is the natural home of my hoplos. I've seen lovely healthy tanks that have tea-coloured water. My local Mudcats are called that for a reason, they could nibble on you nose before you knew they were there. I just think it would be nice to see those fish.

I didn't post here because I wanted opinions about my husbandry...............I'm inclined to think that I have done well by these fish

I didn't say otherwise, did I? But you DID comment on the water and post a picture that many people can see and maybe would like to see the fish too. I did say I adore synos, so please don't be offended that I would have loved to see them. My comments were directed more to the fact that you mentioned water changes would shock the fish, I was only offering a way to change the water gently. No harm meant in my suggestions.

I believe in everyone's right to do what they think is best for their fish. I'm a member here because I value the expertise of the people who know more than I do. Many people here have very old fish so there's nothing wrong with learning from everyone, you, me and the whole boatload of experts.

I think you may have been posting to see if your synos are the oldest? Richard B answered part of that but maybe someone that has that exact info will post.

Also if it's those synos in particular that bred, feel free to post any details you have about that. On the species page it looks like there's more info needed in that area. Perhaps it was your tank conditions that helped them spawn in captivity

[MatsP]

Let me first say well done on keeping the fish for so long.

It is also worth considering that the colour of the water is not directly related to the chemistry that relates to fish waste. Fish release ammonia as a result of digesting protein that in a well-filtered tank is converted to nitrate by bacteria in the filter. Nitrate doesn't escape from the tank, it builds up over time.

So by not changing the water, I suspect the fish is living in a high nitrate level. Fish can survive this for many years, but like so many other things, it is not the ideal conditions.

The nitrate level in a native tropical river is definitely nowhere near that of even the best-kept fish-tanks (except if the farmers living next to the river has just fertilized their fields with artificial fertilizer, of course - at which point algae blooms and all sorts of other bad stuff may happen too). In a river, the water is continously cycling between the rain at high levels, so there is a constant refreshment of the river. Sure, the water may look similar to tea, or even something they would use for mud-bathing at a spa. But it's (generally speaking) fairly clear of nitrogenous content.

--
Mats

[Chrysichthys]

Probably in a tank maintained like this you would get some denitrification, as you would in an unfiltered pond out of doors, so that an equilibrium is established. In other words, you have well and truly 'cycled' the tank. Setting aside any criticism, it would be very interesting and also useful information to know what the nitrate level is in your tank.

[syno-kev]

sorry but i can not see the point in having a large tank like this and not able to see this fish inside ,

isnt that the whole point of keeping fish ?
to enjoy them ,
i think your all being way to kind on this guy his tank is filthy i dont know about the oldest syno in the world .
most dirty tank in the world would be a more fitting title.

[mampam]

sorry but i can not see the point in having a large tank like this and not able to see this fish inside ,

isnt that the whole point of keeping fish ?
to enjoy them ,
i think your all being way to kind on this guy his tank is filthy i dont know about the oldest syno in the world .
most dirty tank in the world would be a more fitting title.

Thanks Kev. When you have kept one of your Synos alive for 29 years I will consider getting a filter.

I bought these fish when I was 14, in retrospect maybe I should have bought killifish, but Synos always did it for me. They were always shy, as wild caught adult animals often are, and I got the wood because it was obvious that they didn't like movement outside the tank and wanted better hiding places than plant pots. So even in the years when the water had no colour I didn't see them very often. The tank never moved from my family home and the fish always stayed shy.

The water in my tank smells fine and I drank a glass of it last thursday; tasted not too bad and no ill effects. So I think there must be denitrification going on; the tank isn't crowded and they are not overfed. If I get a chance to look at the water chemistry I'll post the results here. My experience of wild Synos comes mainly from the Volta river system, and although we never measured nitrate levels I'd guess that they peak where raw sewage drains in and it flows through towns and cities. I've never seen clear water anywhere in the Volta system, or in any African river that contained Synos.

I'm sure that most people would agree, whatever they feel about this tank, that any major alterations would be very likely to kill the fish. And at their age I think they deserve their privacy more than ever.

[mampam]

In the decades I have been away from the hobby I presumed that Synos were now bred more or less routinely in aquaria. From a couple of hours searching google it looks like breeding riverine synos hasn't made much progress since then so I thought it might be worth writing down what little I know about how mine bred.

My three synos have been left completely undisturbed except for a single feeding five or six days a weeks since 1990. I bought them in 1980 as S. nigrita; the largest is brown and has no markings at all, the other two are a lighter brown with many darker spots. They live in a 48 12 15 high tank with 8cm of gravel topped with sediment to an average depth of 6cm. There are two large peices of wood in the tank but no other furnishings. The tank is not aerated or filtered or illuminated. The sediment, stained brown water and lack of illumination make the fish extremely difficult to see. My impression of these catfish from the start was that they did not like light and they did not like things moving outside the tank. The original tap water had a ph of 7 and was usually soft (the land round here is peat). Water temperature is 20-21oC. The fish have been fed Aquarian flake throughout, with live bloodworms two or three times a year until 2000. In 1991 they ate a lot of much smaller synos that I had brought from the USSR. Before breeding was observed in 1997 the last water change had been in 1990. From time to time the tank would erupt in chaos at night and the fish would make the tank rattle, but nobody ever inspected the tank. Some time in 1997 there were no signs of life in the tank and my mother presumed that the fish had died. She told me and arranged for my brother to help her empty it. When they had drained all but 10cm of water they realised that there were still fish in the tank. My mother remembers seeing two synos mouth to mouth looking distressed. There were also a number (now my brother says 2 and my mother says 20) of small (less than 2cm) catfish in the tank. They filled the tank half full and left them alone. When I got back a few months later I filled the tank and searched for the baby fish but found none. The fish continued to go beserk every now and then but they have been left to their own devices. I can watch the fish by sitting very still when I feed them. Any sudden movement makes them dash into the wood and stay there.

My impression is that my Synos love the sediment and dark conditions and that they hate being disturbed. I would love to photograph them but I would have to use flash and it seems rather unfair. Sorry I can't provide more info about this and obviously I'm not suggesting anybody should neglect frequent water changes. But I think there might be something to be said for keeping riverine synos from these brown rivers in low light and with lots of sediment. I think they like it and you can still see them, but they decide when, and it's a treat every time.

[DJRansome]

This guy is probably a tie or better (since he was wildcaught, no way to know how old he was already in 1981). Fogelhund keeps him in clear water.http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 18#p131518

[grokefish]

I think this is a very interesting topic.
I think dentrification is definitely occurring in the sediment at the bottom of the tank and as you said I would also leave them alone.
It is a subject that has often got me thinking of doing this myself using mud from the bottom of a well established pond.

Matt

[Mike_Noren]

The chemistry of that aquarium is no doubt interesting. As stated there must be significant denitrification taking place, or the fish would long since be dead from nitrate poisoning; as denitrification is clearly working there is no telling how much or little nitrate there might be. Since it clearly works I see no reason to assume the water quality isn't good.

One thing, though: the water will by now be well into the brackish range, due to salt in the food and in the top-up water, so if you do decide to start changing water, it's probably a good idea to do it gradually.

[Chrysichthys]

The water is also likely to be very high in phosphate.

[racoll]

And incredibly acidic!

I would be quite interested to see a full water test done on that tank.

A lot can be learnt from "experiments" like this, but I do think the synos survived in spite of these conditions rather than because of them.

[mampam]

[KungFish]

Are these synos still alive?

[Viktor Jarikov]

See here http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... it=+mampam

Also, for other long-living synos here: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =8&t=30928

and here http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 89#p270097