Do you have any "tricks" in your tanks?

[AlaskanCorydoras]

A friend of mine is having a terrible time getting his 40breeder set up, and it brought me to thinking about the various tips and tricks of setting up a low-hassle tank.

As I've mentioned previously, all my major tanks are planted, with the exception of my 20long (Which has an absolutely HUGE ball of javamoss in it) of all my tanks my 20l gives me the most trouble. (Need better substrate. Never knew you could get "Bad bubbles" from large river rocks. Large as in 1-2inches.)

However, for all my tanks I have a bubbler set up right beneath the downpour on my powerfilters. The theory is that it will force the bubbles underwater longer, leading to greater dwell time, and thus oxygination. Dunno if that actually works or not, but it does have the VERY useful side effect of keeping the duckweed out of the downflow, and thus out of the filter.

[Fred T. Washington]

Air pumps add oxygen to the water only by the surface water movement they cause. The actual oxygenating of the water happens at the surface and the more you can move water to and then from the surface the better your oxygenation will be. I use a surface skimmer on the intake of my canister filter and forgo the air pump entirely. Placing an air stone under a filter output would have no effect on oxygen levels in my opinion.

[L number Banana]

A friend of mine is having a terrible time getting his 40breeder set up, and it brought me to thinking about the various tips and tricks of setting up a low-hassle tank.

All I have is a quickie-cycle tank that works if you have other tanks on the go. Use the substrate, moss-balls and decor from another tank to set up the new one. Set up a higher volume powerhead with a nice sponge to trap the goodies and after it's run for a while move it to the new tank. Add an airstone and Voila! no cycle time and no filter.

BBUUUTTTT...
many people and the VERY experienced people here might caution a person from using this method for very sensitive fish!! My extra tank at my Mom's house runs like this with fish and plants as a "just in case" tank. She won't do water changes or anything like that so it's a wee bit neglected but it's never had anything but good water readings and natural sunlight. No algae. Few fish and several good sized plants ensures success.

This is also my experimental tank so like I said, don't try this with prized pets. However it is fast easy and great for the first timer or beginner because it's usually water or algae issues that make newbies give up before they try more interesting fish. I'm still trying to master the higher fish load, higher maintenance tank but at least these no-issue tanks give me a wee feeling of success

What's your friend's plans with regards to type and stocking levels of fish? Someone with experience in that area might be able to give some better direction for your friend's particular tank.

[andywoolloo]

A friend of mine is having a terrible time getting his 40breeder set up

what problem is he having exactly?

[MatsP]

Just a quick comment on the air-stone doesn't add oxygen: that's quite true, the time the bubbles are in contact with the water is minimal compared to the volume/area of water that is at the surface. However an air-pump does add a benefit: It moves water from the bottom of the tank to the top of the tank, which helps oxygenate the water and "rotate top to bottom". Sure, the filter will probably also prove some effect like that, but it's never going to hurt having an extra set of "rotate water around".

Further, I agree, to explain what needs doing, you probably should describe the problems your friend is having.

--
Mats

[Bas Pels]

On a Dutch forum - which is unfortunately no longer on line, an engineer once did a few calculations.

His conclusion was an air stone provides much more gas-exchange than just on the surface.

If I remember correctly, the total surface of all the bubbles is quite large, in case of 1 mm bubbles a typical airstone giving 100 l of claen air an hour at 50 cm depth would double the total contact surface. However, due to the fact that bubbles last only shortly, the water around the bubbles contains less oxygen than the water near the surface. (as soon as the water receives only a tiny bit of oxygen, the bubble has reached the surface). As diffusion of oxygen goes faster when the concentration differences are large, the bubblesurface will exchange more oxygen than the movements along the surface do.

Look at it from another point of view - we all know not to put the compressor near foul air - as this would be bad for the fishes. If the movement along the surface was the only effect the airstone has, the problems would be much smaller

Personally, I have a garage (6 * 3 meter, that is 20 * 10 feet) with 13 tanks, a total of 7000 liters of water (5 of the tanks are rather large, over 500 liters) where the fish consume more oxygen than the closed door (conserving heat) would allow. Obviously, pumps to pump the water around don't do much here. Therefore I installed a compressor, sucking air from the livingroom into this garage, and through 10 tubes the larger tanks get this fresh air.

The results of introducing this air were much better than I thought - but the compressor works through membranes, reminding me every year of how much influence the pump has

So, not only from calculations, but also from observations I would say - airpumps do a lot of good

[Richard B]

The only thing i'd recommend other than regimented adequate maintenance, is for a "leg-up" or emergency use, which is BluStart by Ferplast http://www.ferplast.com/scheda_prodotto ... m_pagina=1

I have set up tanks & had fish in them without any problems within a day. I stress this should not be the norm & is for emergencies or as an added boost when cycling tanks. It is NOT a substitute for laziness or bad husbandary.

[L number Banana]

Richard B wrote:

The only thing i'd recommend other than regimented adequate maintenance, is for a "leg-up" or emergency use, which is BluStart by Ferplast http://www.ferplast.com/scheda_prodotto ... m_pagina=1


I have set up tanks & had fish in them without any problems within a day. I stress this should not be the norm & is for emergencies or as an added boost when cycling tanks. It is NOT a substitute for laziness or bad husbandary.

an english ad for the above: http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... cts_id=455

There's also one called Bio-Spira that has been relabeled in NA as Safe Start. It has Nitrospira (instead of nitrosoma and nitrobacter) so you can add fish after 24 hours according to the label. Haven't been able to find it here but the on-line reviews are excellent.

It is NOT a substitute for laziness or bad husbandary

Low maintenance can still be good fish care, clear & clean water with active healthy disease-free fishies
Zero maintenance is called a pond.

[Richard B]

It is NOT a substitute for laziness or bad husbandary

Low maintenance can still be good fish care, clear & clean water with active healthy disease-free fishies
Zero maintenance is called a pond.

That's not quite what i was saying - i do agree with you.

I have however seen people try to run before they can walk - worst case scenario, setting up a tank with tapwater & adding fish within minutes. They are pleased the fish swim round like crazy but wonder why they are dead after an hour or so......

BluStart is fantastic in emergency situations but shouldn't be relied upon as a regular alternative to properly cycling tanks etc

[L number Banana]

That's not quite what i was saying - i do agree with you.

Oops, Was I jumping on the defensive there? Sorry
I wouldn't be so charming without my many character flaws Yeah, I should have read that bit together with your main point, makes sense.

I wish there was a really good newbie book that would explain basic fishkeeping without scaring everyone away with all the fancy equipment and super high maintenance. Your analogy of running before walking is good. A good book would start out with a very basic easy set-up and explain how/why of moving to higher need/more delicate fish. Like the steps of fishkeeping. All I see around here are brochures and such put out by companies that make people think they need all the bells and whistles. They get an algae bloom and in goes all the chemicals. Soon the tank is a nice cobweb home in the basement

The airstone talk and the comments posted by Bas Pels made me think of something else - you know how people use co2 glassware that makes sure the co2 stays in contact with the water for long enough to get a balanced reading? How about those hilarious little pirate chests that hold the air bubbles underwater for a few seconds before releasing it, maybe they're actually doing some good with regards to oxygenation?
I'll never poke fun at them again!

[Bas Pels]

I don't know about them pirates (I don't like the look of them, but that is a matter of taste) they do concentrate the bubbles into 1 big one - perhaps they actually reduce the effect you are looking for

@ CO2 addition - the best way to deal with these things is to put them out of the tank, to destroy or display dry somewhere. Plants need CO2, that is right, but fish provide enough, and more than enough. Actually, the very air provides the stuff - in an amount the fish can cope with

But someone - may his name forever be cursed - thought that plants might grow better with more CO2 - and that is the basis for all the nonsense written in relation to this stuff

A normal tank requires: a good temperature, most often this means a heater, light and water movement/ filtration

Sometimes the filter contains a water treatment means - such as peat for south American (and Asian and African) rainforest fish, or calciumbicarbonate (crushed marble) for Lake Tanganjica fish.

But, breeding fish from upstream, where the water is so pure, the fish will not have to cope with bacteria, for instance breeding Cheastostoma, I can imagine UV radiation might help - in rare cases, that is.

But further? regular waterchanges. nothing more

[Carp37]

In best "do as I say, not as I do" tradition, I'd say stocking lightly is the best way forward for reducing maintenance and "hassle" without having problems in tanks. Water changes, filter cleaning, gravel vacuuming etc. will still need to be done, but not in the intense changing 40-60% of water every four days I finish up doing. My tanks tend to be pretty maximally stocked- even if they start off low-stocked I end up shoving a few fry in there to grow on (from cichlid spawns, or bristlenose spawns, if my grow-out tanks are full), so these tanks finish up crowded too until I can sell on the juveniles.

[MatsP]

In best "do as I say, not as I do" tradition, I'd say stocking lightly...

Hear hear. No one use my stocking as a guidance, please. My only low-stock tank is the hospital tank, for obvious reason.

--
Mats

[AlaskanCorydoras]

He's had his tank for. . . 3 months or so now? Hrrm. A list of all the various problems. . .

First off, it is a 40breeder, with an aquaclear 70 filter. He mostly runs it double sponges or double biofilter.

The tank is fully planted, with a good 4" of bio-substrate. It is planted with Anubais Nana, wisteria, some corcscrew vals, Dwarf Baby tears, and duckweed.

Initially he had a problem with the substrate silting up the tank. After that he started getting some fungus issues that I suspect crept in from his kitchen. (Ick.) About this time we introduced 7 zebra danios to start the cycling.

Once the tank got established and the initial quick cycle finished, some ottos and praecox rainbows were added. (6 'bows, 10 ottos.) Everything but the danios got ich.

He treated for ich with Coppersafe in a hospital tank, but lost two ottos and one 'bow. He ran his fishless maintank at 88f for 4 days to clear it of ich, and put the now clear fish over. (No water from the hospital tank went into his primary)

Got some brochis, hospitaled them for 14 days, moved them over, got ich again.

He ran half-doses of malachite green for two weeks, which did in most of the rest of the otos, sadly, but suppressed the ich.

It came back 4 days after he stopped dosing. This time he put a UV filter in, and the ich was essentially ended. . . except he could no longer read the PH on his tank it was so high.

Added Seachem neutral regulator to try to get it down more toward 7 (His tank would be ideal at 6. which shot the phosphates through the roof and started irritating the fish and plants. The PH didn't move much.

Started getting RO/DI water from a local water company, and is currently doing a 50% change once a week with that. . .

Oh, you can assume throughout this entire time his tank is 0/0/0 The plants and biofilter do a great job on the nitrogen.

[Carp37]

Hi AlaskanCorydoras- I'm sure if ten of us reply, you'll get ten different answers, none of them necessarily wrong but possibly contradictory. I change water religiously in my tanks, but I have friends who do very little water changing or gravel vacuuming who don't have problems...

Personally I've never found treating for ich to be 100% effective- I don't think you can ever totally get rid of it. However, non-stressed, healthy fish don't get it, so it's more of a barometer of the fish's condition than a problem in itself. Whenever it has occurred in my tanks it tends to go through one generation, then not come back (although it's still there waiting!).

I'm also not sure about chemical agents to alter pH- whenever I've tried even bicarbonate of soda (to raise pH, not lower it) my pH has just crashed back down again- is his pH high due to the tap water he has, or due to the treatments? Using the RO/DI water might help, but is he mixing it with tapwater? RO water on its own has too few dissolved solids for most aquatic life.

Are the praecox rainbows OK at pH 6? I'd have thought they'd be OK at >7 (which you say he's trying to get down to), but might struggle at 6 (which you quote as ideal), but I'm not au fait with all the various types of rainbows and which are OK in acidic water. The Brochis and otos might not be happy at pH much greater than 8. As for danios, I know they're supposed to be hardy but they're something I can't keep alive for longer than 8 months!

[AlaskanCorydoras]

Actually I typed 6.8 but ended up with a smiley. They're fine at 6.8.

Our local water comes out at 7.6, which is too alkaline for most of the fish we want.

[Carp37]

Do you do anything to your water, and is it lower pH than his/hers? I'm asking because your Brochis seem OK. Plants and bogwood reduce pH slightly, but not much.

[Fred T. Washington]

...an air-pump does add a benefit: It moves water...

Isn't that what I said? Maybe I wasn't very clear.

[AlaskanCorydoras]

I add a little neutral regulator to the buckets, and let it sit for a while that way. I also have much more aggressive batches of duckweed pulling all the phosphate out of the water.