Oh Bother as Pooh would say...

[MatsP]

Yesterday evening, arond 10 pm, whilst watching a DVD, the electrics went... Not all electrics, just the sockets. Turns out the RCD tripped, and when I flick it back on again, it's just snapping straight off again. So I go round and turn anything and evertyhing off. All fish tanks off, fridge, freezer, TV + video, etc, etc. Still breaks as soon as it is switched back on. I then switch off the "fuses" for all units - now the RCD can be switched on again. Switch one unit on at a time, and I find it's "outbuildings" - that means my fish-room and the shed. Drat! But I've swtiched everything off in the fish-room... So I switch of the MASTER switch in the fish-room. Yes, now it works. However, I have 10 tanks in there with no power...

So it appears that something isn't quite right in the wiring to the sockets in the fish room. I suspect it's a loose connection or some such.

Fortunately, all my electrics in the fishroom are actually a set of "giant extension leads" - everything connects to a pair of wall-sockets. So I have temporarily fixed the problem by connecting the two plugs into an extension lead from the still working electrics in the house.

I just hope it's nothing that can't be fixed relatively easily. I haven't looked at it in any way yet.

--
Mats

[kewskills]

That's bad luck M8, I dread that happening to my fish shed. Hope it is a simple and un-costly fix.

[Richard B]

Eeek!

[jac]

Like finding a needle in a hay stack
One by one.................




Good luck

[bronzefry]

Extreme bother. I used to have that happen when I lived in an old apartment, many moons ago. Good luck, Mats.
Amanda

[L number Banana]

What a way to spoil an evening!

From past conversations, I remembered that you already know tons about electrical stuff but just in case you haven't been down this particular road before...

An easy way to find the culprit is by doing a 'ring out' if you have a meter or making a single 'trip-out'. You use a GFI (Ground Fault Interupter in Canada) between an extension cord and individually plug in your heaters/lights etc. It will tell you if there's a short or if you're overloaded. It will only work it there's no other GFI inline.
If everything's ducky with the extension cords you already have going, probably it's not arcing but being overloaded. A fuse can be overloaded but will blow later after it gets too hot whereas a GFI will blow instantly if there a circuit issue OR if its being overloaded.

If it might be overloaded but your math says it's not, try borrowing a Kill-a-Watt from an electrical supply shop, it's a thing that clamps around the wire that leads to your main box and will give you a reading of EXACTLY how much power is going through before it blows. (make sure all the heaters are on) I think it's also called a clamp-metre or amperage metre. Hubby's is at work with him so I can tell you more than that.
If it's the line leading from the master switch, put the GFI on the socket end of that, if it doesn't blow, then at least you know your main line is good.

I'm sure you already know all that stuff but it's worth a writing out just in case others need to figure out issues safely. I think a monkey wired my house originally so I've been down this road before.

Good Luck and hope the rest of your day is peaceful.

[MatsP]

Thanks for the advice and trouble-shooting suggestions. Unfortunately, it is none of the plugs that connect to my tank equipment that cause the problems.

RCD == GFI.

The switch that I switched off to make it work again is the mains switch where power gets into the fish-house, which then distributes to the two power sockets in the fish-room, light in the ceiling and the the outside socket + work/storage shed at the other end of the garden. I already eliminated the outside socket and shed by swithcing off the RCD in the fish-room.

All my fishroom equipment is now connected via the existing two plugs.

And no, the circuit is by far not overloaded. I have 26A x 240v -> 6KW available to me. That would be 20 x 300W heaters - I do not have THAT many heaters in the system, never mind them all being 300W. Actually, I think the fuse is 20A, which is 4800W (the fuse-box is a bit awkward to get to, so I don't really fancy checking - it is not the fuse blowing anyways, it's the RCD/GFI unit for the entire house that blows).

I will have a bit of a checkout of it on Saturday/Sunday - I need to move too many things around to do it in the evening.

--
Mats

[L number Banana]

RCD == GFI.

Thanks that's helpful.

it's the RCD/GFI unit for the entire house that blows).

Okay I understand a bit better. That does make it a little less work at least, still a PITA though

You didn't mean that you have a fish house RCD AND a main house RCD, right? On the ones we have here, if there's two used anywhere inline, they will continuously trip each other. We have to put them on each end-use (socket etc) that goes to the main panel. As with above, I'm guessing you already know that bit.

Good luck and here's a note to make you smile- did you know that the process of running wire for electricity is called "fishing a wire' because you have to use a 'fishtape'?

Sorry, just had to. It just struck me as funny in a demented sort of way and I thought you could use a chuckle.

[MatsP]

I do have two RCD's "in series" but as far as I can tell, they do not trip each other out in any way. Maybe they are a different type than the ones used in North America (doing a very similar job - maybe that's why they are called something different - although I don't think that's the case).

Either way, yes, it's not a whole lot of wiring involved.

--
Mats

[L number Banana]

Hi Mats,
Just looking up the RCD's out of curiosity and found the wiki - take a look at the "Limitations" part halfway down the page. We don't want to lose any moderators here! I didn't quite understand that bit but I'm sure you will make more sense out of it. Again, don't know it earth leaks and things apply but when I saw 'water heaters' - I was just a wee bit worried....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device

Cheers

[MatsP]

Water heaters in this context is imersion heaters for hot water production (baths/showers/washing up, etc). The heaters in fish-tanks are unlikely to have a ground-current leak as described in the Wiki article. That is caused by the ground of the hot water tank having a potential to the ground/neutral of the electrical system. This is not likely to be the case for a fish-tank made from glass, but very likely if you have a metal hot-water tank (which is the common material used). On the other hand, my water-system is well grounded through recent installation.

And the whole electrical installation is about three years old and installed by a professional electrician.

--
Mats

[L number Banana]

Whew. I feel better now. That "looks like it's off..." bit kind of freaked me out.

Maybe the work is still under warranty, can't hurt to ask him. Save your weekend for the rest of that DVD.

[MatsP]

Problem solved. As per usual, the actual fault was relatively easy to fix, but the road to get there was quite long.

I had to take a shelf out of my RO water reserve tank-stand. Since the shelf is also part of the support for the legs on the tank-stand and I didn't want 250+ kg of water to fall down when I did that, I had to empty out the RO water first (took the oppurtunity to do a bit of water-changing on some of the fishes, but it added more work to the whole thing).

And the battery in the multimeter was flat, so I had to go out and buy a new battery. I thought "Whilst I'm out, and I have the RO water tanks empty, I may just as well get a 22mm tank connector, so I can put my water-change pump on the outside of the tanks" - well, three shops and 90 minutes later I still didn't have a tank connecctor! Sods law.

So back home, with a new battery for the meter, I managed to figure out that it's the socket itself that is LIKELY to be the problem, so I replaced that with a new one (I bought a box of 6 some time ago, and I didn't actually NEED 6 at that time, so I had a spare one). Tested the connection again, and now it showed no resistance, rather than infinite resistance as before. Lucky, I suppose.

Then test it out: Woot, it works! Plugged the two plugs back in, and it still works.

Finally, I put the shelf back in. I still have to fill up the tanks of RO water, but I will get a 22mm tank connector first.

--
Mats

[Birger]

And the battery in the multimeter was flat, so I had to go out and buy a new battery. I thought "Whilst I'm out, and I have the RO water tanks empty, I may just as well get a 22mm tank connector, so I can put my water-change pump on the outside of the tanks" - well, three shops and 90 minutes later I still didn't have a tank connecctor! Sods law.

hehe...these "little" things do certainly have a way of turning themselves into projects alright.

[andywoolloo]

glad you got it sorted out. scary.

[L number Banana]

Black cloud with Silver lining

[jac]

Yeahhh, thats the way to go Well done

[kewskills]

Great to hear you sorted it so quickly and it was fairly simple.

[MatsP]

Great to hear you sorted it so quickly and it was fairly simple.

I think so too.

I have now also connected my RO tank to the pump via a piece of pipe, rather than putting the pump in the RO tank. That helps getting abit more out of the tank, since the intake is lower than the intake on the pump.

--
Mats

[Carp37]

glad you got everything sorted Mats. My big fear is a power cut when I'm on holiday, because half my filters pack up if they're switched off, then on again (internal filters with impellors- some need to be restarted manually).