Considering to buy a Synodontis species

[Haavard Stoere]

I have always loved synodontis species, and I have had a few, but only single specimens. Sort of like pets.

Anyways. For some time I have been thinking about building a breeding tank setup far a small-medium sized Synodontis species from Lake Tanganyika.

I intend to build the landscape out of concrete with pigments. My plans are to integrate egg traps into the landscape. The tanks available are a 200 liter measuring 100x50x40 and a 352 liter measuring 110x80x40. The latter is of course the better tank, but if I go for a smaller species I would prefer to use the smaller one.

About acquisition of the fish... I don`t want hybrids... Most probably the fish will be wild caught and purchased from Glaser.

There are quite a few nice species from Lake Tanganyika, and I like most of them. The most beautiful tends to be the medium-large ones.
Which species do you suggest or recommend, and why?
All advice will be appreciated.

[jerry58]

Hi
Just to start the ball rolling and bet it will !

Why not try Petricola or Lucipinnis get on well in groups of 3 or more and good looking fish easy to keep and breed if you want to and by far my favorite .

Jerry

[sidguppy]

Haavard, check out the real petricola's from Tanzania......

they are stunning! and....they're not bred yet, so there's a whole field of oppertunities around the corner

I suggest the larger tank for these as it is both a slightly larger fish and it has a fair bit of character.

these are often labelled "Giant Petricola" or "Tanzanian petricola"

funny to see how my own pic has ended up on a Polish site

[andywoolloo]

I was also going to suggest lucipinnis as I love them. Or the big ones as already suggested. Here they are called Borundi wild petricola.

[zenyfish]

Now you're talking!

I'd like to see S. Polli in your tanks. Only because in my parts, I've never seen them ... also not bred.

[Birger]

I have grandiops and polli in a tank together and what I like is the darker mature polli contrast nicely with the lighter grandiops with both having different behavior, the grandiops tend to stay out in the open more and even when at rest will sit on top or higher on the stones while the polli(at least the ones I have being wild caught) tend to stay lower in the stones and more reclusive during the day and in the evening moving higher up above the stones and at feeding time are not very shy. They are both fairly close as far as size as well. I did not like it as much when I had the polli and lucipinnis together for awhile.

For just a single species the petricola is a very good suggestion though, I have not had the pleasure to have some but I would think they, like lucipinnis, tend to be all over the tank.

Wild caught tangy's seem to be fairly sensitive to changes in the water conditions or any kind of extra chemicals with even tank raised lucipinnis showing distress before most other fish, this may be a consideration or even a test for the epoxy and other materials used in and on your home built concrete stones.

Birger

[andywoolloo]

what about these guys! beauties!!

Synodontis granulosa

[Birger]

what about these guys! beauties!!

Synodontis granulosa

While they are beauties, Haavards tank measurments are in centimeteres not inches so would not be large enough.

[Haavard Stoere]

Thank you guys for all the response

Synodontis granulosa

is my favourite, but to big for the tanks I plan to use.

Synodontis polli

is stunning as semi adult, but seems to be very dark and a bit mushy in its drawings as adult. It fails in the beauty department.

The contenders for my 200 liter tank are:

Synodontis petricola

is very nice and small.

Synodontis grandiops

is a very nice one looking at the only photograph on PC, and its size seems to be ok for a medium sized tank. My 200 liter tank would be large enough I think

Synodontis lucipinnis

is a real beauty and small.

Synodontis multipunctata

is very nice, and its size should fit nicely in a 352 liter tank. I really like catfish at this size.

Availability will of course play a part when choosing.

About using concrete.... The epoxy I use to seal concrete is certified for use in drinking water tanks. It is 100% harmless. However I do not intend to seal the concrete as the fish wants hard and alcaline water (epoxy is expensive). My plan is to mix some earth pigment into the concrete mix to get the desired color and degree of darkness. If there are reasons I am not aware of for not using unsealed concrete in a Tanganyika tank please let me know. The concrete I use is just water, sand and cement. No funky additives.

[Richard B]

You can't get better than Petricola.....

That said, dependant upon personal preference ther are always the unknowns to consider - i've just got back from seeing some w/c tangs. Amongst them was a small group of what were described as small spot dhonti - i think these were the 'actual' undescribed sp. "Goldeneye". see pic 4 http://www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk/p ... 134267.php. Or what about sp.2 the white polli?

[Haavard Stoere]

I have been searching some older and newer lists from both Imazo and Glaser. It seems like the only one one commonly sold is S. multipunctata. I will of cource check other sources for availability on petricola and lucipinnis. Any suggestions?

The list price for S. multipunctata on an Imazo list are around 85 nkr for captive bred and around 295 nkr for wc.

Can we assume that the captive breds are hybrids?

[MatsP]

Any captive bred synos are LIKELY to be hybrids. There are genuine captive bred ones, but they are rather rare.

--
Mats

[Haavard Stoere]

Yeah! I thought so.
If the smaller species like S. petricola or S. lucipinnis don`t become available the next 4-6 months I may go for 10 or more S. multipunctatus. They are beautiful to, and would look great in a 352 liter tank.
Thanks for all advice

[Martin S]

Yeah! I thought so.
They are beautiful to, and would look great in a 352 liter tank.

Especially as it will be one of your tanks!

[Birger]

Any captive bred synos are LIKELY to be hybrids.

Not necessarily when it comes to Tanganyikan synodontis...some of them are bred regularly and it is not overly difficult to pick out the eastern hybrids, I would think someone in a local club would at the very least have lucipinnis or grandiops.
The biggest thing is people are still confusing names (lucipinnis & petricola for example)on a regular basis, if one is aware of this and with a little research, can learn to pick out the more common ones.

Birger

[MatsP]

Any captive bred synos are LIKELY to be hybrids.

Not necessarily when it comes to Tanganyikan synodontis...some of them are bred regularly and it is not overly difficult to pick out the eastern hybrids, I would think someone in a local club would at the very least have lucipinnis or grandiops.
The biggest thing is people are still confusing names (lucipinnis & petricola for example)on a regular basis, if one is aware of this and with a little research, can learn to pick out the more common ones.

Birger

Ok, I should rephrase that as "Any captive bred synos on wholesalers lists are LIKELY to be hybrids".

I agree that hobbyists breed and resell these, and if you happen to find fish that is bred locally, then they are very unlikely to be hybrids. However, wholesalers generally do not buy small lots of hobby-bred fishes, they buy from commercial breeders, who are likely to use hormone injection to get the fish into breeding condition, and mix two species to improve the resulting fry-count.

--
Mats

[Richard B]

I have been searching some older and newer lists from both Imazo and Glaser. It seems like the only one one commonly sold is S. multipunctata. I will of cource check other sources for availability on petricola and lucipinnis. Any suggestions?

The list price for S. multipunctata on an Imazo list are around 85 nkr for captive bred and around 295 nkr for wc.

Can we assume that the captive breds are hybrids?

These prices don't seem too bad....

Lot's of people have multis & Lucipinnis for sale that they have bred themselves, sadly i am not sure about locations on mainland Europe. Are Airfish in Germany still going - they used to have a selection of tang synos on their lists, or does anywhere near you import from NHA at all?

[Haavard Stoere]

The captive bred ones are probably from the Check Republic, and from what I have read previously at PC I assume they are hybrids. I don`t know anyone locally who breeds Synodontis species.

Who are NHA?

[andywoolloo]

Especially as it will be one of your tanks!

I wholeheartedly agree, Martin!

I can honestly say ever since you have said you are going to do a syno tank I have been smiling just waiting to see the pictures. It am certain it will be truly awe inspiring and something to try and replicate. Anxiously awaiting.

I got my lucipinnis from Joe at http://www.californiacichlids.com , he calls them dwarf petricola tho. I do not know how far he ships but he does ship to other countries but I do not know how far. He is also on aquabid and craigslist. He also has multis and Borundi petricola. He is close by to me so I got to see his fish room.

[Haavard Stoere]

Well thanks Andy and Martin
Please don`t hold your breath as I have a few other things to get sorted before I start any actual work on a tank setup.
Meanwhile I will do enquiries about getting the fish. I believe the two species in question sometimes gets imported to Denmark. I don`t consider buying from the USA as an option.

[Haavard Stoere]

Yesterday I found a group of Synodontis sp. petricola at my lfs. They were bred in Checkia. Is there any chance of them being the real thing (petricola or lucipinnis)? They cost 175 nkr.

Could it be decided from photographs?

[Martin S]

Haavard
I'm sure some photos will help the syno experts on here to distinguish if they are genuine or not - i hope they work out to be what you are after.
Martin

[Richard B]

A half decent pic would most likely enable us to say genuine or not, certainly

[Haavard Stoere]

Superb! I will post a couple of pictures one of the next days.

Are there any anatomical details in particular I should make closeups of?

[Birger]

Well if you can get a picture of whether or not it has an auxillary pore ... but in reality just a good side shot should be able to make the identification...might be a little tougher to identify (lucipinnis or petricola) if they are very young.

Birger

[Haavard Stoere]

Well if you can get a picture of whether or not it has an auxillary pore ..
Birger

What is an auxillary pore?

I made these photographs in the shop today.... All 11 fish were around 7-8cm tl.

[racoll]

These look to me like hybrids Haarvard.

Wrong shape and colour.

[andywoolloo]

I should have went with my gut feeling this morning which was hybrid, but I was chicken.
Or at least that they weren't luci or petricola.

[Birger]

Birger wrote:Well if you can get a picture of whether or not it has an auxillary pore ..
Birger


What is an auxillary pore?

Sorry, it should read axillary pore..."An opening that is located between the base of the pectoral fin spine and ventral margin of the humeral process, the function of the axillary pore is unknown in mochokids" (Wright and Page2006)

The point of this being petricola has one and lucipinnis does not, this can be seen in a photo but I have stared and stared at these things to discern the axillary pore and it is very difficult to see.

Unfortunately those fish in your photo's are hybrids as mentioned already, it has a rift heritage but is mixed with something else.

Birger

[sidguppy]

yup, hybrid scum

it might not be political correct, but I view -and have done so for years- ANYTHING coming from Czechnia in relation to our hobby as bogus, hybrid or bad news at the least.

there are supposedly some importers in there getting weird stuff from Tanganyika, but them being Czechs I won't touch em at all.

Synodontis lucipinnis is bred in Scandinavia as well, Haavard.
there are several Tanganyika fishkeepers in Sweden and Norway wich keep and breed their fish. it should be available.