Stress, snails and spawning..Grrr.

[L number Banana]

So, I'm in the middle of an art show, stressed out, long hours etc. Forgot to turn the tank light on last night, got home tonight and Whammo! A billion snails magically appeared!

The walls of the tank are covered in cory eggs and the water is kind of milky or hazy! It was clear enough to take pictures on Thursday

The tiny goldfish fry (one) that I moved to that tank is an alien named Jaws apparently and has surpassed the otos in size and seems to double every day. I only moved him there 'for a few days' til he got big enough to go back outside with the others. The ones left outside are still only like tadpoles with tails! He's outta here in the morning, ready or not.

The snails are those evil Physa tiny pond snails, I know some people like them but they were in a giant clump at the front of the tank and on the front glass and there were so many that they almost filled a common net measuring 2 x 3 inches! I thought there must be a dead fish underneath the clump of snails. Nope, no food, no dead fish, everyone's accounted for, nothing, just pure snail mayhem. I didn't even feed the fish before I left this morning. In fact, I'm so disciplined at feeding these days that all my gravid fish, otos, farlowella and Corys are probably PO's at me.

I've got two more long days at the show so I can't do a serious clean out yet but what can I do to kill off the evil snails and not hurt my fish? I know how to de-snail the plants but any ideas to wipe them out completely? Borrowing a puffer is not an option

No more Mrs. Nice Girl

[andywoolloo]

just keep picking them out by hand, put some lettuce or zuchinni in there and take them out, or at night a few hrs after lights out just go in there and pick them up.

I wouldn't add any snail be gone chemicals. I would be afraid what it would do to my fish and plants.

[L number Banana]

Thanks andywoolloo,

I've been picking here and there and squish a few for the corys but this was literally almost to the top of the net!! I would just scoop across the sand, shake it out and there was just snails left. Never seen anything like it. I ran a knitting needle across the front glass to dislodge all the ones there and I swear it was like watching black rain

When I put in a slice of cuc or zuchinni, the snails don't seem to get much of a space to grab, the otos and farlowella seem to do a good job of muscling them out of the way.
I will try the lettuce though. Maybe I'll put up a clothsline of lettuce and do the lights-off thing again. If it's like what I saw tonight, I'll take a picture. There wasn't that many in the old tank where they were allowed to breed all they wanted to. I must have something out of whack. Freaked me right out, I thought for sure there must be a big dead fish under them. Glad there wasn't

[andywoolloo]

sometimes at night when i peek in my tanks I am also amazed at how many malaysian trumpet snails there are cause I only see one or two during the day. When it gets too much I take a cup and start picking them out. cause they all come up at night. They are very happily producing.

[L number Banana]

I frequently watch the tanks at night - not a big sleeper , back lights, red light etc - but do your MTS ever have that kind of population boom?
I can usually see about 10 at any given time and I guess that means there's another 30 in hiding but I swear there must have been three hundred.
The tank is currently low light because I let the lilies cover the top to make it ready for USD cats. Also I just checked the water and the PH is up a bit to just over neutral, it's usually pretty steady at 6.4 to maybe 7 at the worst of my negligence. Could that have spurred this super spawn of both the corys and snails?
I usually kick the corys into spawning by lowering the ph.??

I've got the lettuce leaf clothesline figured out: Clip a line across the top of the water from end to end, use plastic clothes-pegs to clip lettuce leaves down the whole length. If it works I can just pull the whole line out at once - heh heh. Sounds too easy to work...

[kvnbyl]

probably you are seeing more because of the low light right now, they are a lot more active at night. i think that many might be an indicaton of overfeeding -they have to be eating something.. i had an unfortunate experience with an attempt to eradicate them chemically. if they all die off at once it's going to make a mess. i tried lettuce leaves and some of the snails didn't seem to care for the taste of it! i used clown loaches and 2 cleaned out a 55 gal tank in a week. FWIW

[Mike_Noren]

Are you sure those are Physa?
Physa neither burrows in the sediment (so they don't stay hidden), nor are night-active, so they are unlikely to suddenly "materialize".

A more common event is to change something (usually turn off pumps or increased temperature or increase CO2) and suddenly find hundreds of malaysian tower snails on the glass. What's happened then is that the change has caused a catastrophic drop in dissolved oxygen and the snails have left the lowest-oxygen zone (in the sand) in a bid to survive.

[jac]

A few months ago I bought 5 Anatome Helena snails. These are snail eating snails
I have no snails anymore in my tanks. At first they produced about 100 eggs and a few weeks later I saw loads of tiny Helena snails. They only eat others snails, not there own kind. Seen as they are very atractive snails and a little hype here in Holland they sell pretty well. So the small baby snails move home quit quickly

They only reproduce when there are lots of snails for them to eat. The eggs will only hatch when temperature is above 24 celsius. If these key faktors miss they won't reproduce and you are left with very pretty snails in you tank. They will eat about 1 snail a day, so you have to give them some time but ones they are gone you're free from all other snails in you tank.

I have them with my C. Adolfoi and C. Peru Green Stripes and it works out just fine for me The baby snails I put in a seperate tank and then sell them on.

[jerry58]

Hi jac

You say the assassin snails have cleaned your tank is that the pump as well?. I would like to know if they clean in the pump as the majority of snails are in my eheim pro 3 pre filter will they get rid of them in there and does it affect the water quality if a lot of snails are killed at once?.
I have assassin snails and can put them in pumps and I am running tanks with sponges over the intakes there are a few small assassins in pump but never in pre filter only lower down in media trays, not sure why ?
I clean pre filter with boiling water to kill them but always come back.

Any info would be good .

Thanks Jerry

[L number Banana]

Mike_Noren wrote:

Are you sure those are Physa?
Physa neither burrows in the sediment (so they don't stay hidden), nor are night-active, so they are unlikely to suddenly "materialize".

Pretty sure they are but my fault for not being clear - they don't burrow at all but I have a lot of plants so when I said 'hidden' I meant under/behind leaves, on the roof of the caves etc. They seem to be active all the time, night, day, no matter. The majority of them were in a big clump on the sand at the front area of the tank. The only reason I sifted them out of the sand is that I used the net to scoop them up and naturally got some sand in with them too. They're really small. Largest would have been maybe less than 1 cm, most were about 1-2 mm. Also, they were only on the front glass in large numbers. The back and sides had cory eggs everywhere.

No change occurred that I'm aware of. heck the temp with a different thermometer. No CO2 is being used and I don't think the power went off while I was away because the clocks were all fine. I changed some of the water last night. It looks normal this morning except for the haze in the water. It's just weird. I'll change more when I get home tonight.

[L number Banana]

kvnbyl wrote:

i used clown loaches and 2 cleaned out a 55 gal tank in a week. FWIW

I was thinking of them but they may be too aggressive for the twig catfish? I know I could borrow one for a little while. Do they ever bug peaceful fish like Twigs and Otos? My L401 and P.maccus have lots of hiding spaces but the twigs stay out in the open.

Don't want to go the chemical bomb route

[Mike_Noren]

They seem to be active all the time, night, day, no matter.

Yep.

The majority of them were in a big clump on the sand at the front area of the tank.

Oh, I see. They were clustering on some sort of food; you can use that behavior against them with baited traps.

The back and sides had cory eggs everywhere.

Yes, Physa are "safe" snails, they eat neither plants nor fish eggs, only dead/rotting organic matter.

[Carp37]

The tiny goldfish fry (one) that I moved to that tank is an alien named Jaws apparently and has surpassed the otos in size and seems to double every day. I only moved him there 'for a few days' til he got big enough to go back outside with the others. The ones left outside are still only like tadpoles with tails! He's outta here in the morning, ready or not.

I had a similar experience with Tilapia mariae and 'Geophagus' iporangensis fry last year- those I kept together (live microworm, liquifry, crushed flake, various prepared high-protein fry foods, daily water changing regime) grew quite slowly in comparison with some of their siblings I randomly stuck in my community tanks, which were never given anything different from the normal flake/pellet fare most of my fish get.

Regarding snails, I've got plagues of minute ramshorn-type snails which I inherited with some second-hand tanks I got a couple of years ago (too small for my camera to photograph- they don't get much bigger than 5mm diameter). Does anyone know what they could be? Some of my tanks run at up to 28.5 degrees C (most are 24-25.5), but they also managed to overwinter in a bucket outside despite the surface freezing over, so I don't even know if they're a tropical or temperate species.

[AlaskanCorydoras]

DO NOT GET CLOWN LOACHES FOR A SMALL TANK. Clown loaches grow up to 16" long, and get QUITE huge. They also can live up to (theoretically) 50 years. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/cl ... cracanthus Also, they're a gregarious, social species. You need at least 5 of them, and they need a very specific environment to be happy/healthy. There has been a recent HUGE upswing in reports of the agressiveness of this species on the Loaches forum. I suspect it is mostly due to inappropriate environment. My 5 get along quite peacefully with the several cory species I keep in my 90 gallon. (All three brochis, julii, sterbai, aenus)

Now I have a large shoal of 14 zebra loaches (Botia striata). Zebra loaches grow to a maximum of 4", and do indeedy eat snails. Again, you need 5 of them, but being significantly smaller, you can get away with fewer/smaller hiding spots. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/botia-striata Mine get along just fine with my Palatus cories in the tank. (you need to be very careful buying these. . . they're often mislabeled, and several species look similar. get to know the unique stripe pattern, and note the redness of the nose. If you accidentally get a Tiger loach species, well. . . hope you don't like long finned fish.)

Another slightly larger (and more common) species are the Yoyo loaches. (Botia almorhae) They grow to 6" and are great snail nibblers. Mine get along just fine with the Elgans and Panda cories in the tank. I've read variously that they're slightly more agressive than Clowns or Zebras, and that they're as placid as kittens. . . I suspect it entirely depends on the environment in your tank. My tanks are designed around the fish, not around showing them off, so my Yoyos tend to be calm and well behaved. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/botia-almorhae

[Birger]

There has been a recent HUGE upswing in reports of the agressiveness of this species on the Loaches forum. I suspect it is mostly due to inappropriate environment.

I would suspect this is in part due to more of them being kept in a "correct" environment (due to the good info at loaches.com) which allows them to grow and as they mature this side of them surfaces. I think a lot of the clown loaches sold never get this chance.

Birger

[Mike_Noren]

I've got plagues of minute ramshorn-type snails which I inherited with some second-hand tanks I got a couple of years ago (too small for my camera to photograph- they don't get much bigger than 5mm diameter). Does anyone know what they could be?

Likely planorbids of some sort. They're pretty common in aquaria, typically they live and behave much like Physa . Here's a picture of a planorbid which used to be very common in my aquaria, hitching a ride on a Lymnaea peregra: http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/specimens/ ... CN5484.jpg.

[Carp37]

Likely planorbids of some sort. They're pretty common in aquaria, typically they live and behave much like Physa . Here's a picture of a planorbid which used to be very common in my aquaria, hitching a ride on a Lymnaea peregra: http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/specimens/ ... CN5484.jpg.

Thanks Mike- that looks a possible match if some of them stay small. I've never encountered ramshorn-type snails that stay this small before.

[jac]

Hi jac

You say the assassin snails have cleaned your tank is that the pump as well?. I would like to know if they clean in the pump as the majority of snails are in my eheim pro 3 pre filter will they get rid of them in there and does it affect the water quality if a lot of snails are killed at once?.
I have assassin snails and can put them in pumps and I am running tanks with sponges over the intakes there are a few small assassins in pump but never in pre filter only lower down in media trays, not sure why ?
I clean pre filter with boiling water to kill them but always come back.

Any info would be good .

Thanks Jerry

Hi Jerry,

I have some snails in my filter. The Helena's eat all the other snails, they don't just kill them. So no rotting proces of dead snails The few snails that come out of the filter into the tanks is eaten. The snails eggs also will be eaten. So eventually all snails will disappear
I find it the perfect natural way to keep your snail invasion under controle

[jerry58]

Hi
Big THANKS for that will give it a go will put 5 or so in and see what happens.Do you know if they breed in the pump if so will try to look out for them when I clean pump,sorry to be a pain but you are the only person I know that has used assassin snails and not a lot of info about the results people have had I think they are great.

Jerry

[ranmasan]

By any chance, does this look like the snail infesting your tank? I've unfortunately had these guys since my last mail order plant shipment ::grrrr:: but they don't seem to be anything more than a visual irritant. They neither eat my plants nor bother my fish and actually keep my white gravel white, in comparison to the dusty "whitish" that it used to be prior to their joining my fish.

I have to regularly decimate their numbers monthly by physical cleaning as fresh veggies/fruit added at night just doesn't work. That's about 1/4 cup in the strainer that I took out yesterday and some little guys hanging out on my bogwood. They make excellent plant fertilizer, btw .

[jac]

Hi
Big THANKS for that will give it a go will put 5 or so in and see what happens.Do you know if they breed in the pump if so will try to look out for them when I clean pump,sorry to be a pain but you are the only person I know that has used assassin snails and not a lot of info about the results people have had I think they are great.

Jerry

You're welkom Jerry

The tiny little Helena's are very hard to see but when you see one it's unmistakeble, they look exactly like the parents. Nice Yellow and Black lined shells.
You will see a male and female together for a couple of days. Then you can find some square shaped eggs on plants, filter or heather. After about two weeks you will start seeing the tiny little baby Helena's when doing a water change. If needed thats the best time to collect them, after a cold water change. They dig themselves into the sand but also will glide around at daytime.

Here some pictures of my Helena's:
A mating pair of Helena's

And my first collection of baby Helena's, about 100 youngsters I collected overall.


Now the investation of snails in my tanks has disapeared so I don't have as many baby Helena's now, just a few. They've stopt laying eggs for now

It's a pitty you live in beautifull England (my dad was english, st. Hellens Merseyside ) otherwise I would have given you some of mine

Good luck!! Greets Jacqueline

[Mike_Noren]

You should be aware that the helena, unlike malaysian tower snails or Physa, do eat fish eggs.

[Mike_Noren]

Thanks Mike- that looks a possible match if some of them stay small.

Yes, most species are small or very small. The one in my photo is an adult and perhaps 4 mm in diameter.

By any chance, does this look like the snail infesting your tank?

I can't identify those snails, but if those are adults it could be hydrobiids, perhaps Potamopyrgus. I have Potamopyrgus in one of my aquaria, where it exclusively lives in the filter. At any given time I have about an inch thick layer of thousands of tiny Potamopyrgus snails eating the sludge in the filter, but I don't think I've ever seen one out in the aquarium proper. Possibly something eats them.

[jac]

You should be aware that the helena, unlike malaysian tower snails or Physa, do eat fish eggs.

I don't have any problems with that. I have not seen them eating the eggs. And even if they would, I always remove the cory eggs into a special breeding container.
I can see when time comes that the corydoras are going to spawn and I make sure I'm quick in removing the eggs when they are finished

[ranmasan]

At any given time I have about an inch thick layer of thousands of tiny Potamopyrgus snails eating the sludge in the filter, but I don't think I've ever seen one out in the aquarium proper. Possibly something eats them.

While they are in the filter as well, they seem to be most prolific along the sand and gravel bed with about 20% of them clinging to the aquarium glass (I just scoop them off with a net when they get too bothersome). If you happen to notice what it is in your tank that keeps them under control by eating them, I'd love to know.

Thanks for helping with the ID!

[jerry58]

Hi jac
Big THANKS for that informative reply and pics I have noticed them together mating just thought it was a passing ruff and tumble.
I have the assassins in my 4 foot zeb grow on tank at the moment they also help clean up uneaten food and will see how it goes not sure if I will put them in my zeb breeding tank(because of the eggs I leave them with dad) not to much of a problem in there at the moment.

Thanks Jerry

[L number Banana]

Lots of good info here! Thanks everyone

Alaskan_Corydoras wrote :

DO NOT GET CLOWN LOACHES FOR A SMALL TANK. etc..

I was only going to borrow a couple, you're right, they get way too big for this tank. I wasn't sure if they would be safe with my Farlowella, so until I know for sure, this little plan is on hold. Scooping with the fingers and net is the order of the day along with a lettuce leaf clothesline. Will update if it works.

However I now have a whole day off and plan to spoil myself with giving the tanks some undivided attention. Stuff the dishes, they can wait.
And I'm going shopping for a better filter

[AlaskanCorydoras]

Just get Zebra loaches. I linked to their profile, and they only get 4" long. I have >14< of them in one of my 55s, and they're real. . . clowns.

Snails? What snails?

[L number Banana]

Holy Snail Vacuums, Batman!!!
Got Yo-yo loaches. Visited four shops and no sign of zebra loaches though I would have preferred them for maximum size.

So I got three because after all the reading I did, it seem like three is a small enough number to keep them from being alone but they can stake out territory if they need to. Most of the posters that talked about how peaceful they are had three. People with several noted that their tumbling antics freaked out some of the more docile fish.

One kicked the bucket on the way home all the swishing back and forth in the water and such did not revive him. So the pair are now in the tank and are tiny tiny tiny. They are the same size as my smallest oto so I didn't expect any serious snail hunting to take place.

Watched them for ages last night and saw them try to pick at the larger (.5 cm) snails. They found a few on the sand that were small enough that I needed a magnifying glass to verify that they were snails and not grains of black sand.

This morning, they're looking quite full and the front glass has NO SNAILS AT ALL! There's a few on top of the floating leaves and one or two larger ones here and there. I can't find any of the tiny ones that are small enough to just see that spiral shape with the naked eye.

I realize I may have to move them to the 40 when they get older but for now, I've got a second filter on this tank and am keeping an eye on them for any signs of aggression. So far they're a perfect fit - and with those little barbels, they even look like a catfish. At this stage I'm wondering if I will have to bring some snails in from the pond outside...kidding I may start a loach rental service.

I've named them the X-men.

[L number Banana]

Got number 3 replaced today (nice LFS!) and already there was a battle over the best plant leaf between two of them. Boy they colour-change fast! But they change back fast too The 'Loser" went pale and skulked off to a new leaf and his colour came back almost right away.
Fed with the corys tonight and saw one of the twigs flip the smallest one off when he was sitting on the twig's tail (not nibbling, just landed there).

They've graduated to picking the medium sized snails out of their shells

All three are schooling with the tiny tetras or with the otos. Life is good but still keeping an eye out for any overly rambunctious behaviour that might freak out the twigs.