SYNODONTIS LONGIROSTRIS CATFISH

[fish god]

this maybe in the wrong category but just want to know what kind of money can i ask for a 8-9" synodontis longirostris catfish in the uk???

i know they are impossible to get hold of in this country and have been for some time so obviously this catfish is worth a decent amount.

would appreciate some ideas guys as i want to sell this one to fund other projects and keep the larger species at 14"

look forward to some replies guys!!!

[mummymonkey]

Around £50 - £60.

[fish god]

gotta be honest i think it is worth quite a bit more.i mean i paid £70 for it 4 years ago when it was 3" and now they are just not available.

i appreciate it is only worth more to a synodontis collector but to the right person this catfish is worth £100-150 all day long.

is there anyone on this site that u know may be interested in this mummymonkey???

[Richard B]

The last couple that were sold that were discussed on the forums were, i think, £65 & £ 80something if memory serves me correctly (from MA Wembley & Trimar?) Before that someone had a pair for £26.50 each from Creamston Aquatics.

A good specimen is probably worth £100 to someone who really wants one, much more than this & it is in granulosa territory as far as price goes, IMHO.

A great catfish - i'd hang on to 'em

[Chrysichthys]

is there anyone on this site that u know may be interested in this mummymonkey???

forum member syno_kev has been looking for one for a while now, you could pm him.

[syno-kev]

thanks but we have already spoken and my limit is £65 which is what the dealers at wembley wanted ,

i also got offered 2 at £50 each from a chap near cardiff last summer one was 9 inch the other about 14 inch which had a small bite mark from a pike ch####d it was getting oveer friendly with .

but anyway its a bit far from manchester so i will pass only i have a few local dealers looking for me .

[sidguppy]

why don't you put the pics in this thread you put on the other forum?

this forum is not made of a single personal crowd, so unlike certain places there's a lot of objectivity around

not to mention a wagonload of honest-to-god ichthyologists doing whatever it is that an ichthyologist does in his spare time ;)
like determination of hobbyists' fish in here.

because I'm still not convinced these are true Synodontis longirostris.
if they are, then I like to see the experts chiming in and explain to my why they are, especially when they are quite a bit different from the pics in the catelog.

there's 3 possibilities
1: I'm right, and your fish are another species and the catelog show the real thing.

2: I'm wrong and this species shows a wide variety in coloration, body shape and mouthwidth; making both your pics and the catelog pics good pics of a longirostris

3: I'm wrong, yours are the true longirostris and the catelog pics are faulty.


as for amount of cash.....I don't think a certain fish automatically is worth a certain amount of money, because the salesperson wants to make a fat profit.
that's not how capitalism works.
capitalism works, because someone (or a lot of someones) is prepared to pay a certain amount of money for a certain species of fish
it might not be the amount you want for it, but it's the amount most hobbyists in here think it's worth.

the fact that it's not often for sale is not always a guarantee the price will go up.
it did for example with the Blue Eyed Panaque, but then: pleco's are always popular.
it doesn't however for Trychomicterids, or Cetopsidae or a lot of other little known catfish.

they might be absent from the market for decades, but once they turn up they still aren't expensive, unless the seller is prepared to get stuck with a bunch of unwanted unsellable unknown fish.....

[syno-kev]

Wise words above Sid ,

and as to hybrids on longirostris i was warned by an experienced dealer that there are hybrids of this species coming out of the czech rep and they are very convincing specimins but tend to be much more aggressive than the true wild caught species ,
and this above mentioned fish was bought at only 3 inches makes me think was this a hormon induced breed fish ?
as most wild caught fish i have heard about in the notes above of fish available came in much larger from africa .
has anyone come across these hybrids ?

[Richard B]

The longirostris hybrids i've seen pictured were not from the UK & were clearly nothing like the genuine species, so easily identifiable as not the real mcCoy.

[Birger]

The longirostris hybrids i've seen pictured were not from the UK & were clearly nothing like the genuine species, so easily identifiable as not the real mcCoy.

I am of the same opinion as Richard with the hybrids I have seen with this name.

I would like to see a picture of the fish for sale...If it is real I would like to see it...if a hybrid I would like to see what larger ones end up looking like.

Birger

[sidguppy]

to stick to the short version;
I saw a few pictures of the fish in question for sale at another forum and they looked odd to me.
not ugly, or hybridlike at all, just odd.
for what I see as longirostris.

heavy bodied where I thought the Synodontis longirostris was an elongated fish, narrowmouthed where I thought the longirostris had a wide thicklipped mouth etcetera.

I voiced the opinion that I thought these were not longirostris; I specifically did NOT mention the word "hybrid", mind.
but still I was keelhauled, crucified and hung out to dry by the entire forum, and also threatened/intimidated via pm at wich point I collectively flipped them the bird and left.

I mean, one can disagree with soeone else's opinion, sure, but it was completely blown out of proportion.
that's one place they won't see me in a hurry.

and i still haven't seen any pictures posed here, where there are plenty people who know a LOT about synodontis.

that's why I still tate, I can be wrong, but I may be right too.
And I'm not talking about hybrids, there's always the possibility of an undescribed species or a very similar species that I have missed.
and if I'm wrong, I'd like to see some pointers to the proportions of the fish in question why it looks different from the ones in the catelog.

[Chrysichthys]

there's 3 possibilities
...
3: I'm wrong, yours are the true longirostris and the catelog pics are faulty.

That one I think I can rule out. I used to have two wild-caught longirostris and they match the Cat-eLog pics. They arrived at the LFS (Creamston Aquatics in Haverfordwest) half starved and were fed in quarantine for two or three months before sale. The big one was about 8 inches long and the smaller 6 inches. They cost £26.50 each, which I thought was a bargain. They were quite peaceful. The big one never bothered the small one at all.

[Martin S]

I'm assuming that the fish in question the one currently for sale in Aquarists Classified HERE as the location of the OP and the ad are the same. The ad in the link contains some images, though not any profile shots, which may help starting the ball rolling on the ID of this fish.
Martin

[syno-kev]

yes that is the fish for sale but never having seen one other than in books photos etc i have no idea ,
but it looks like the genuine fish to me !.

but the guys on here will be more definate .

[Dave Rinaldo]

I'm assuming that the fish in question the one currently for sale in Aquarists Classified HERE as the location of the OP and the ad are the same. The ad in the link contains some images, though not any profile shots, which may help starting the ball rolling on the ID of this fish.
Martin

Here are those pics.....

[Birger]

And I'm not talking about hybrids, there's always the possibility of an undescribed species or a very similar species that I have missed.

I would always prefer to have this scenario come up rather than the H-word

Just off the top of my head the spots seem small for longorostris but it is supposedly possible to have smaller spots.

This one does not have caudal stripes but, not all do.

The humeral process seems to be close

I would have to check my books later but it looks to be a genuine syno and I wouldn't be surprised to find there is a couple very closely related variants(small spot vs. big spot for example)

Birger

[sidguppy]

it is the narrow nose and the highbuild short body that threw me off

if you check the pictures HERE, HERE and HERE you see a fairly elongated fish with a very broad thicklipped mouth; not a short fish with a pointy nose

hence my confusion.

[Richard B]

albeit a long time ago, the specimens i've encountered did show a fair amount of variation - body colour, spot size etc.

This is undoubtedly a true species & i'm leaning towards longirostris, but

Synodontis guttata

is niggling away at me a little.......

[Birger]

Now with books at hand and much more time...

it is the narrow nose and the highbuild short body that threw me off

if you check the pictures HERE, HERE and HERE you see a fairly elongated fish with a very broad thicklipped mouth; not a short fish with a pointy nose

hence my confusion.

Very true which led me to what Richard said

but Synodontis guttata is niggling away at me a little.......

I am glad you said this out loud...I earlier had the same thought and passed it off as just that but looking through my copy of The Fresh and Brackish Water Fishes of West Africa and checking the description and the key supplied if I had to chose it would be guttata(guttatus), the long long long nose, small spots, the humeral would work.

For those of you with Seegers book at hand I do not agree that guttata(guttatus) and gobroni are the same fish.

Just out of interest I would like to see a picture of the second fish mentioned by the original poster on this thread if it is possible.

This is of course just my opinion with the information I have on hand and I realize guttata is not very well known as a matter of fact much less than longirostris, and look forward to other options and opinions. No offense mr fish god but I am looking forward to hear the opinion on this fish of the true Fish God in these parts...Silurus.

Birger

[Richard B]

I also think that Gobroni & Guttata are not the same.....

[fish god]

sorry haven't responded to the many posts to this thread guys.i have been away.

with response to the fact that i am looking to make a profit on this species that is a total joke as i paid what i am selling it for!!!

also it came via a reputable source and i have the history of these two species i have.

so in your professional minds guys what conclusion have u come to???

real mccoy or hybrid???

i know what i think but always good to get someone else's opinions backed up with reasons behind their decison unlike sidguppy on OBE forum site.that is why he was slated on there bcoz you cannot just call someone a liar without reason and show the reasoning behind your opinion.

if you think that these are hybrids i can live with that but i wont be belittled by certain people (sidguppy) over this.

if i have would have know how much trouble this would have caused i wouldnt have originally offered this species for sale!!! lol!!!

[MatsP]

I think the summary conclusion is:
It's not a hybrid, but it's not certain if it's S. longirostris or S. guttata.

As to being called a liar: I sure agree that someone should just call someone else a liar - there should be some sort of motivation for saying so.

Regarding "making a profit", we have discussed that matter in the other post where your "S. longirostris for sale" was being posted as a link, and someone enquired as to the price and said "He's asking £200, that's a bit much isn't it?" - and I think that's a lot of money for a fish. Yes, it's a fish you don't see very often, and it may be that someone is willing to pay that if you find the right person. But like Sidguppy said: The value of something is what someone is willing to pay. Say I wanted to sell my house: I ask what I paid for it two years ago. Do you think it would sell? After all, I'm not looking to make any profit, I'm just asking what I paid myself...

Sidguppy has been a member here for a long time. You seem to have "met" him elsewhere. We both know that he's good at some things and not so good at others. Being polite and gentle when it comes to pointing out (possible) flaws in someone else's posts is not one of his strong points, to put it mildly - part of this can probably be put down to language/culture, but not completely. Sometimes you have to accept the rough with the smooth.

--
Mats

[Richard B]

I think the summary conclusion is:
It's not a hybrid, but it's not certain if it's S. longirostris or S. guttata.
Mats

I think most agree it is a genuine species - the 2 above or something equally infrequently imported that is physically similar...

[Birger]

There is also the fact that not knowing which river system it came out of makes it difficult to pin down.

There are still some unknown, or undescribed synodontis and even variants of some fish that are difficult to determine. We have come across a few syno's like this in the last couple years here on PC and it keeps things interesting but a definite answer is not always possible.

Some people do not like to have a single unidentified fish and will just pick the closest species they think it is but it is also kinda cool to have something no one else has at the moment.

Birger

[Chrysichthys]

It would help to see a profile, but that doesn't look like a longirostris to me. A longirostris should have a long snout like that of a horse. 'Longirostris' means 'long nose.' And I have seen, and kept, genuine wild-caught specimens.

[sidguppy]

just to clarify things for Matt and the others:

first: I NEVER did call ANYONE a liar on the other side, nor did I use the word hybrid ONCE

i know what i think but always good to get someone else's opinions backed up with reasons behind their decison unlike sidguppy on OBE forum site.that is why he was slated on there bcoz you cannot just call someone a liar without reason and show the reasoning behind your opinion.

this statement in fact IS a lie, and you sure got a lot of gall putting it like that.

if you think that these are hybrids i can live with that but i wont be belittled by certain people (sidguppy) over this.

again YOU are the one putting up LIES and SLANDER about ME.


I was polite when pointing out it was a different fish from the regular longirostris.

I only got agry when I was threatened and intimidated on the forum as well as through the PM box by this "fish god person".

you turn the facts around a 180' by telling a bogus story.

and yes, once I get harassed by a whole crowd of people without any manners who use intimidation and harassment as a way of communication, yes, then I DO get angry.

Sidguppy has been a member here for a long time. You seem to have "met" him elsewhere. We both know that he's good at some things and not so good at others. Being polite and gentle when it comes to pointing out (possible) flaws in someone else's posts is not one of his strong points, to put it mildly - part of this can probably be put down to language/culture, but not completely. Sometimes you have to accept the rough with the smooth.

I know I can be bad tempered and not a nice person; but in this case I was being well mannered and I got pluoghed over by this person who calls himself "fish god" and now he's putting up lies and slander about me to cover his own ass.

FACTS:
I NEVER stated ANYWHERE on that forum that the fish might be a hybrid
I only pointed out it wasn't a regular longirostris
I NEVER "belittled" him (I DO know the meaning of that, thank you very much)
I DID got angry after several people started to jump up and down on me, especially after getting a highly intimidating and very nasty personal message from this LIAR.

just to clarify things.

[Chrysichthys]

I do think you're right that it isn't a longirostris.

Let's see if I remember the last line of that book. Is it:

"I, Horse Badorties, am ready for the monsoon."

[fish god]

well guys i appreciate all your comments on this subject and i will take all comments on board and thanks for all your help.

all i will say on the subject with sidguppy is lets bury the hatchet bcoz u have your views and i have mine.u speak one way and i speak another.
i say lets agree to disagree on this one and move on!!!

i will leave it upto you sidguppy!!!

i respect ur opinion but i just think the way you air your views needs a little fine tuning!!! lol!!!

as your well respected on this site i am well respected on OBE so i suppose that goes with the territory and it's natural that u will have more people fighting your corner on this site than me as i am new to this forum and the same with you when u came on OBE forum site.i had my fellow forum members fighting my corner.

opinions are great but they need reasons for those opinions and that was all that everyone on OBE forum site was saying to you about your original comments!!!

anyway lets move on from this tell me what would u now advertise this fish as then???

thanks again sidguppy and all people that have contrubuted to this thread and long live the syno's!!!!

[mummymonkey]

In my view you're entitled to advertise it as longirostris. The asking price is whatever you feel somebody is prepared to pay.

[Chrysichthys]

But (to paraphrase Galileo), nevertheless it still isn't one.