Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members?

[Yann]

Hi Yann,
Looking good!
Btw: afaic you can leave out the "cf-part"; these are genuine E. gameroi imo.

Thanks for the input... still I found the fish to differ from the original description no??
Cheers
Yann

[nvcichlids]

I just wanted to give you guys a little heads up. I have my group of jag's in a 125 gallon tank. While doing some maintenance over the weekend, I did find fry, and yes they are jag's!!!! I wasn't able to get any pictures of them (camera could not focus on the back of the tank and I didn't force them to the front) but I DEFINATELY have 3 fry (if not more stuck/hidden in the wood.) I am having my brother starting to monitor water conditions for the next time (because there should be a next time.)

Sorry there are no other details as of now.

[Martin S]

I just wanted to give you guys a little heads up. I have my group of jag's in a 125 gallon tank. While doing some maintenance over the weekend, I did find fry, and yes they are jag's!!!! I wasn't able to get any pictures of them (camera could not focus on the back of the tank and I didn't force them to the front) but I DEFINATELY have 3 fry (if not more stuck/hidden in the wood.) I am having my brother starting to monitor water conditions for the next time (because there should be a next time.)

Sorry there are no other details as of now.

Congrats
We definitely need some pictures - am sure, like the recent images of

Platydoras armatulus

fry we have seen, seeing how the jags develop from fry to adult would be an interesting series of photos for not just.
Martin

[Marc van Arc]

Marc
How are you finding these? Mine do not seemed to have grown any more, so assume adult size to be slightly smaller than C.perugiae, but with only one pair left (and amazingly, four very small young which are almost impossible to see/find), they are as active at feeding time as ever.
Do you know if you've had any spawns yet? Martin

Hi Martin,
They're doing nicely. No further growth in length whatsoever (but these bellies can stretch ; I believe it was Jools who named them mini-Asterophysus - very appropriate).
I hardly see any juvies anymore due to the snaileating snails, which are much more fond of fish eggs btw. I tried to get them out, but then discovered they have been breeding as well.... and more successful than any auchenipterid . So apart from the huge masses of MTS I now also have a small army of Anentome helena. Quite annoying.

[Marc van Arc]

Thanks for the input... still I found the fish to differ from the original description no??

Once settled in they no longer resemble a silvery fish with a black marking in the upper caudal. When fishes are kept well, they'll show their true colours.
Yours look exactly like mine & Jool's and I'm pretty sure mine are E. gameroi.

[nvcichlids]

Congrats
We definitely need some pictures - am sure, like the recent images of

Platydoras armatulus

fry we have seen, seeing how the jags develop from fry to adult would be an interesting series of photos for not just.
Martin

That tank is rarely disturbed. It gets water changes every 3 weeks with filtration of 2200 gallons per hour. I saw three little catfishes swimming. By looking at them, they resemble cent. perugiae's, which made me giggle a bit, jut with much darker colorings. They aren't very fast though. my adults are quite quick for their size, but the little ones just almost "float" around. I really hope that the ones I have seen make it, because after my wedding I am planning on going back up there and stealing the three fry from the tank to bring to my location (which is 9000000x better for photo ops )

[Yann]

Once settled in they no longer resemble a silvery fish with a black marking in the upper caudal. When fishes are kept well, they'll show their true colours.
Yours look exactly like mine & Jool's and I'm pretty sure mine are E. gameroi.

Well mine never show a white silver colour at any time, even after being really really stressed...always had shown this colour.

Also the description specify that E gameroi has transparent fins which is absolutely not the case with these fish.
Don't you think we are in presence of a possible subspecies on its way to speciation??
Cheers
Yann

[Marc van Arc]

Once settled in they no longer resemble a silvery fish with a black marking in the upper caudal. When fishes are kept well, they'll show their true colours.
Yours look exactly like mine & Jool's and I'm pretty sure mine are E. gameroi.

Well mine never show a white silver colour at any time, even after being really really stressed...always had shown this colour.

Also the description specify that E gameroi has transparent fins which is absolutely not the case with these fish.
Don't you think we are in presence of a possible subspecies on its way to speciation??

As I'm no scientist this is of course a tricky statement, but I really don't think this is a new species. When I bought mine they were exactly like the ones in the Clog and when they grew larger they became darker and look identical to the specimens shown in your pictures. So it's likely that age/length cause the difference in colouration. Perhaps the authors worked with juveniles and/or sub adults? Besides, I take it they work with dead "material" (hence the pictures in the article) and maybe the colouration can't be noticed in dead specimens?
Btw: my specimens will also not show the silvery colour anymore, not even when I turn the tank upside down ( figuratively speaking ).

[Marc van Arc]

He's taking home a male

Centromochlus reticulatus

from my group

Remember I told you I thought you had 2 species in that tank? One reticulated and one almost grey? Well, It turns out that your male has become grey as well, with very thin reticulated lines. Contrary to my female, which almost has patches compared to the male.
I know it's a bit silly to suggest that they are 2 different species - certainly wrt the last but one posting - yet I really wonder....
Any more info wrt your specimens Jools?

[Jools]

Yes, several bits of info.

I went back to see Hugh/Outsideinside aquatics yesterday to pick up the final shipment of tanks, unfortunately, I couldn't as the guys at red sea aquariums had made the wrong size for the big tank. I do however now have two 30x18x15 and 36x18x15 tanks ready for painting. I need at least half of these for fry grow outs!

Anyway, I had planned to buy some female E. gameroi as for some odd reason I appear to have 80% males. So now I have 11 of them with at least four maybe five females. They will be moved to a larger tank soon. BTW, I totally agree with you Marc, some of my fish look like Yanns, some look almost completely silver but they change slowly from week to week and it is not sexual dichromatism either. If you turn off the filter for several hours so that the DO drops and they start breathing heavily, then silver fish will go spotted quite quickly. Keep them in faster water with plenty of air and all but the dominant fish will be silver.

Hugh then said, oh, and you might be interested in these - I've had them for over a year. It turns out there are Tatia sp(2) for sale. That he had eight of them, and that we did not see them on our visit (or had them pointed out to us) is most frustrating, but it means I now have a colony on mini-Asterophysus too!

There was also one odd T. reticulatus, which I also took. However it was so black it looked so much like T. intermedia or similar that it wasn't until stressed that I could just make out the patterning.

Anyway, on to the point, when I move out the Orinocodoras from the T. reticulata tank (they are going in the big tank as they have almost doubled in size since you saw them Marc), I will study them and report back.

Cheers,

Jools

[Marc van Arc]

Hugh then said, oh, and you might be interested in these - I've had them for over a year. It turns out there are Tatia sp(2) for sale. That he had eight of them, and that we did not see them on our visit (or had them pointed out to us) is most frustrating, but it means I now have a colony on mini-Asterophysus too! There was also one odd T. reticulatus, which I also took.

That's too bad indeed. I wouldn't have mind taking some more visible (compared to Helogenes) catfishes home. On the other hand, Hugh might have forgotten about them and stumbled into them by accident, probably while doing maintenance. They are after all very small and secretive creatures.
Anyway, I'm happy they ended up at your place. The more auchenipterids, the better

[nvcichlids]

You guys REALLY make me jealous. I am struggling to find any auchenipterids. I have my few species, but you guys find such nice species that I couldn't DARE try to find over here.

[Marc van Arc]

You guys REALLY make me jealous. I am struggling to find any auchenipterids. I have my few species, but you guys find such nice species that I couldn't DARE try to find over here.

Of course making you jealous is not our intention. I can understand your feelings though. When I started keeping auchenipterids again some 7 years ago, it seemed Japan and the UK were the only places were they could be found. I didn't like that either.
It's just a matter of checking wholesalers lists regularly and act when you (finally) find something. Over here they're mostly one-off, because auchenipterids sell slowly and LFS will order them just once because of that. As a result, wholesalers will not import them again. Example: there have been 70 specimens of E. gameroi on a wholesaler's list for over half a year now. I bet you they won't import this species again in the next 5 years or so. No sales, no money. And tank space that could have been occupied by species that do sell (and thus do make money).
Just keep looking and I'm sure you'll find something sooner or later!

[nvcichlids]

my major LFS almost seems annoyed. I call weekly to find out what catfish are on the order list. I really REALLY want to find some of the other fish on my definately want list here in the next year or so.

Seeing the fish over there atleast gives me hope

[Marc van Arc]

NVC,
Here's something that may be useful to you: I've made a list of common Peruvian names and added the scientific name to it. Most of them are correct imo. The thing is that these fishes are often exported under their common name and that an importer may not know which species it exactly is.
Have a look on page 12 of this thread and let us know - is due course - if it was any good to you.

[nvcichlids]

that is extremely helpful. I noticed that one of my LFS has had several fish listed on that list under the same names (granted I already have those species.) But it is a great starting point for me! Thanks a bunch!

[Marc van Arc]

that is extremely helpful. I noticed that one of my LFS has had several fish listed on that list under the same names (granted I already have those species.) But it is a great starting point for me! Thanks a bunch!

You're welcome. I should have thought of this earlier....
Btw: there's an addition/update on page 14.
And when in doubt, just post it here. I'm sure we'll be able to work things out.

[nvcichlids]

Grrr.. i finally found a place that sells TONS of auch's that I want, but none of my lfs are on their order list of stores. Segrest Farms has TANK RAISED jaguar cats, along with tank raised striped raphaels, so they are breeding them as well! I really REALLY hope someone one here int he US knows of a LFS that can order from them because I would LOVE to place an order through you

[Proteus]

Grrr.. i finally found a place that sells TONS of auch's that I want, but none of my lfs are on their order list of stores. Segrest Farms has TANK RAISED jaguar cats, along with tank raised striped raphaels, so they are breeding them as well! I really REALLY hope someone one here int he US knows of a LFS that can order from them because I would LOVE to place an order through you

Actually its not true about segrest farms their website stock list available to public is way different than what is really available from week to week- mostly of their list is really bread and butter fish - rarely oddballs

they do not have most woodcats in stock- they just keep the list and never update or remove their list- the true availablity list is different than what is shown on their websites-though they might be available from time to time when they get em in

I really wanted the jag cats and I had to contact my store to get into the real availablity stock list near none of em were on the list many of the woodcats I called few weeks ago weren't on the list and were on the list though driving me nuts just going back and forth having them check the stock list as my store has contract with them though I never buy livestock from em I'm always buying tons of expensive dog food hence the reason they're going extra mile for me I guess

[The.Dark.One]

Picked up a nice Auchenipterichthys punctatus and a Centromochlus sp. today.

[Marc van Arc]

Wow. Both trigger my interest, so show us some pictures if possible

[The.Dark.One]

Wow. Both trigger my interest, so show us some pictures if possible

Hi Marc

I'll try and get some tomorrow. The A. punctatus are gorgeous, wish I had enough money to get a few. Very good condition. Just need fattening up a bit.
Cheers

[Marc van Arc]

I'll be waiting for them.
I was hoping to obtain some A. punctatus in Scotland last April (I sort of ordered them), but they turned out to be A. coracoideus.... Luckily Jools bought them, so everyone was happy.
And pls don't forget the Centromochlus sp!

[Marc van Arc]

To get in the mood here's one from the series "A shot in the dark". I just sit myself in front of the (dark) tanks sometimes and take a few take pictures.
Mostly they're crap, but sometimes quite nice.
This one shows the 2

Tatia intermedia

girls and the one on the left shows what I call a typical mating (or mating attempt) injury. I believe the pectoral spines cause these damages for they can also be seen in male specimens. Not a very subtle species with regard to that; to be honest it's one of the most "agressive" auchenipterids I keep.
On the very left a very elusive auchenipterid; I bought it as Tatia spec Peru and determined it as

Glanidium leopardum

. Too bad it's just a single specimen.

[The.Dark.One]

I'll be waiting for them.
I was hoping to obtain some A. punctatus in Scotland last April (I sort of ordered them), but they turned out to be A. coracoideus.... Luckily Jools bought them, so everyone was happy.
And pls don't forget the Centromochlus sp!

There are about 3 or 4 left of the punctatus, and they are selling at £20 each. They are about 8 or 9 cm. They are well worth £20 its just that I'm skint at the moment!

The Centromochlus sp. looks a little like C. existatmatus (from memory). The sexually mature male has a very long dorsal fin spine.

[Marc van Arc]

The Centromochlus sp. looks a little like C. existatmatus (from memory). The sexually mature male has a very long dorsal fin spine.

Ah, that's a

Centromochlus heckelii

type of fish. Very nice; never seen them over here.
Genuine A. punctatus are a great find as well btw! I think you should be able to see the gender at that size; perhaps it's possible to make a reservation for the gender you lack atm in order to get a pair in the (near) future?

[The.Dark.One]

The Centromochlus sp. looks a little like C. existatmatus (from memory). The sexually mature male has a very long dorsal fin spine.

Ah, that's a

Centromochlus heckelii

type of fish. Very nice; never seen them over here.
Genuine A. punctatus are a great find as well btw! I think you should be able to see the gender at that size; perhaps it's possible to make a reservation for the gender you lack atm in order to get a pair in the (near) future?

Looks simialr but the patterning is different. Quite patchy greyish. There is a black mark on the upper to middle of the caudal fin.

The punctatus - I will do if they are there long enough! Anyone with any sense and cash wil snap the lot up.

By the way he had some massive Liosomodoras oncinus. At least 15cm SL (if not more), but remarkable in that they were in such good condition for newly arrived fish. No scratches, no damaged fin spines.

[Jools]

Steve,

Pending a pic, I'm pretty interested in the A. punctatus as well, where are they being sold (or where imported from)? Did you by any chance manage to determine the gender of those left for sale? It's interesting that these are being sold at a higher price - it suggests someone knows what they are.

Jools

[The.Dark.One]

Hi Jools and Marc

Excuse the darkness of the image on the punctatus. Its got a little bit scratched overnight. It was wedged in a pipe with two nice A. coracoideus. They rang me to come in and ID them as they (and the wholesaler at that point) didnt know what they were but they do now because I've told them. I was in a big rush so only glanced at them. Jools, if you want more info, pm me.



The Centromochlus has one of its very long pec spines snapped off. Didnt notice that when I was buying it! There were plenty of smaller ones of these too.

[Marc van Arc]

Nice! Genuine punctatus. I'd say it's a male specimen, but not 100% sure.
I have to check on the Centromochlus (or Tatia?), but it's a male specimen for sure.
Thanks for those 2 pix!