Stocking New 20 gal.

[betta blue]

Me again! Had a friend drop off a 20 gal. tank at my doorstep cause he knew I couldn't refuse, and I would like some recommendations of some new fish to keep. Gone to my LFS and have been advised German Blue Rams (apprehensive of them cause my water is hard here), Rainbows or Barbs...all in stock there. Any info on these or other suggestions that I can try? that are colorful. It can be a species tank. I'd also like to get another plec suitable for a 20 gal.

I'd like something different than what I have: glass catfish, upside down catfish, dwarf african frogs, clown and yo yo loaches, bettas, mollies and platys, african butterfly fish, bulldog plec, albino female bristlenose, male bristlenose, chocolate plec, common plec, farlwella and apple snail.

Have a lot of plants in it and a bog wood that I transfered from other aquariums.

You have no idea how much I appreciate your info. I turn to this forum everytime I have a problem since I started my addiction to fish! coming 3 years now and from a betta bowl, I now have a 90 gal., 45 gal, 2 - 10 gal, 2 - 5 gal, and a 20 gal getting ready for new fish! And still looking for a 120 gal. tank that is 2 feet wide at an affordable price!

Thx!
Shar

[bristlenosekid]

try a shoal of congo tetras and mybe some discus in the tank. in a amozon style set up

[betta blue]

I thought Discus didn't like plants and a 20 gal. setting sounds a bit small for them. I will check out the Conga Tetras. Thanks for the input. Definately looking for some fish I don't have and I sort of like the unusual I feel like I have this big opportunity to do a species tank!

[sidguppy]

putting a Discus -wich is a grouping shoaling cichlid that reaches 8" in length and height- in a 20g is madness.
a small group of 5 Discus need a 100G tank.....

Congo's are way too lively and too large for a 20g as well

20g that's about 80 liters or less; it's really small
2-2.5 foot tank?
Congo's should be kept with 10 or more; and even the smallest Congo species gets 2.5"; many reach 3-4"
a 75G/300L 4 footer with plenty open water is about the minimum size for Congo's.

luckily there are plenty dwarf catfishes and ditto characins or barbs that can fit in a 20G.

really nice dwarf catfishes are the smaller Corydoras, for example Corydoras habrosus, C pygmaeus etc
then there's a whole list of otocinclus, Hisonotus and the like, the small sanddwelling Rineloricaria beni (one of the smallest whiptail/twig cats), Parotocinclus, Lampiella gibbosa etc.
there are tailormade small oddballs as well: tiny Auchenipterids like Tatia perugiae, Entomocorus benjamini etc; weird and funny fish like Trichomycterus spp, Helogenes marmoratus etc.

if you look beyond South America, Africa has a whole list of small Amphilius wich unfortunately are very rare in the trade.
they are NOT hard to keep, however and surprisingly tough for such a fragile loioking fish.
another small African that turns up in the trade again is Mochokiella paynee.
very peaceful and very odd. and really longlived! they can last for well over 2 decades wich is astounding for such a miniature catfish.

Asia has a whole list of tiny cats, but many of them should be kept a bit cooler than usual; Hara, Erithistes etc. some are very small. when kept at roomtemperature and a bit of current they do fine.

don't add cichlids, not even dwarf cichlids as the floorspace is too small.
once the cichlids start to breed they and the catfishes are in each others' way

dwarf Anabantoids are a far better option; most of these are surface breeders. the ones that are not are very docile.
species like Betta picta (a tiny mouthbreeder), Betta imbellis, the beautiful red Betta coccina, Colisa sota, Colisa chuna (Honey Gouramy), Colisa lalia (dwarf gouramy) Parosphromenus filamentosus, Pseudosphromenus dayi, Trichopsis pumilus and the like.
real beauties!

the list of Characins and barbs that are smallis too long, but if you want to leave the well travelled path, search for fishes like the small Chela dadyburjori, Pyrrhulina spp, Neolebias spp, Nannobrycon, Copella spp and the like.
many of these dwell in the upper water layer (save for Neolebias) wich matches well with catfish.

[MatsP]

I'm sure Discus are fine with plants. But as you correctly state, a 20g tank is far too small - you'd be looking at more like 75-100g for Discus to be happy.

Advising on what fish to get is always very difficult, because taste is very personal (just like some people like dark brown wall paper, others like little flowers, or large flowers - none of them are "right" or "wrong", just different taste).

Have your bristlenoses been breeding for you? If not, this tank could be a good setup for breeding bristlenoses.

Rainbows are good in hard water. I haven't had much luck with Rams, but they look very nice.

The smaller forms of

Sturisoma

such as S. aureum are nice (one of my favourites), and go well in a planted setup.

Some of the smaller

Synodontis

will go well in a 20g tank.

There are also a lot of cories and asian catfish that would go nicely in a 20g tank.

--
Mats

[betta blue]

Thank you for all the information. This should keep me busy for awhile checking the internet and fish stores for availability.

I do have a female albino bristlenose (no bristles on her nose and a male normal colored bristlenose. They're in two separate tanks now and thanks for the suggestion of putting them both together and see what will happen. I'll check the breeding info.

Shar

[sidguppy]

actually this is not a bad idea
breeding albino's also gets a lot of recessive genes in the genepool, often leading to unhealthy fish.

so the best way to breed albino BN's isn't albino x albino.
especially not when those are siblings

a better way is albino x wildform.
their offspring will all look like wildform, buit they are heterozygote for albinism

the next generation has -roughly- 25% true wildforms, 50% heterozygotes (wich look like wildforms) and 25% albino's.
the heterozygotes can be crossbred with albino's again as well; them more offspring is albino. up to 50%.

this way you eliminate a lot of bad genes, but keep albinism.

[betta blue]

Thank you but I just read a five page forum back a few years ago and would breeding an albino and a regular plec be unethical? I love my female albino plec and she's much more active throughout the day than my male who sits behind the heater (not even under the bogwood) and maybe he's active at night but I never see it. I had thought watching baby bristlenose's would be something new for me and if they did breed, I could get a bit of a discount from a LFS for some food. I bought African Butterflys to try to control my platy and molly breeding but I still have about 10 a month I need to give away. I think there are too many of them for my 2 Butterflys to keep in check. The Albino Bristlenose is one of my favorite fish but if she breeds am I reducing the hardiness of the Bristlenose?

[sidguppy]

not if you stick to the same species, it's not

if you htybridise, yes, that's unethical

but staying within the species; actually this is the way to breed healthy albino

albinism isn't creating a new 'species'; it's a mutation.
it's alno not comparible to a certain breed, like breeds of dogs or cats.

and like many mutations; if you linebreed them there's a lot of unwanted genes that 'drag along'

for example: bredding an Ancistrus cf cirrhosus WF with an Ancistrus cf cirrhosus 'albino' is an example of sensible fishbreeding

keep a log, make sure that you know wich animal of your breedery is in the right tank, and keep track of whoever is doing it with who

and don't be sqeamy when it comes to cull; if deformities or runts turn up in a spawn, cull them.

if you sell any wildform-looking offspring, label them as "heterozygote for albinism" so people know what to expect.

it's setting up a genuine breeding program.

not unethical at all, but a lot of work.

[betta blue]

I plan on moving my two bristlenoses together into the 20 gal. in about 3 weeks or so. The bristlenoses have lived apart "happily" in two separate tanks coming 3 years this Oct. Is there a chance of some territorial issues. I will bring the castle that my albino lives in into the tank to give her some familiarity.

I just bought 3 boesman's rainbow fish that are in the tank now. Are very active but quite boring in color...hopefully in time that will change. They are about 1inch or less...all males according to the fish shop...they claim they will get along better. After doing more reading, it looks like they too will need a larger tank when full grown but on a phone call back to the fish shop after finding that out, they advised me that they grow slowly. And I thought I had taken care of research...wrong again. I needed to be more specific on my searches and next time will bring a pen and paper to write down the exact species...always learning and angry at myself.

And that's how I went from a betta bowl coming three years ago to 7 aquariums that appear to being getting bigger all the time Am soon going to loose space and with my fish, I guess I will be selling smaller tanks for larger ones!

So how was your long weekend!

Shar

Shar

[betta blue]

I read Richard B's post and was quite excited though I don't know if my two know they can breed...long time that they've been in their own habitats without any interaction from their own species.

Shar

[MatsP]

I'd say you are right on the Boseman's rainbows. They will colour up nicely when they settle in - considering the size, it may take a bit before they reach mature colouration too. I'd amazed the shop can tell sex on fish that small, but pherhaps it's possible. I still have 2 of the fish that I bought about 4.5 years - ago (Hint: They do not like very soft water!). In my experience, they do not grow VERY fast, but my males went from around 2-2.5" to about 4" in a year, so they aren't extremely slow growing either. They aren't aggressive or difficult to keep, so shouldn't cause problems moving to another tank, as long as you keep stocking levels within reason.

I don't think there will be agression between your bristlenoses, but there are exceptional circumstances of "wife-beatings", particularly if the male is more interested in spawning than the female. And I'm sure that they "know how"... But it may take one or two goes before the male actually figures out how to look after the eggs and get fry...

If you can, don't sell the smaller tanks. Build racks to keep the smaller tanks for fry growing/smaller species of fish!

--
Mats

[betta blue]

Wow! Lots of info on your last post. Thanks Mats! My male bristlenose is quite reclusive. My female Albino is out and about all day. I will advise how they take to each other when united.

I seem to keep collecting tanks and always looking for bigger ones. I will keep all my tanks thanks to your advise. Have tried to keep all the tanks in places I can enjoy them but I do still have the basement. We also have an atrium built on concrete flooring...puppy thinks its his place to poo when we're not home...not sure if you needed to hear that...but I think I can rearrange plants to allow for some aquariums. Just need to get my husband to accept my passion. Also just bought a zebra snail to help with the algae from sunlight.

Thx
Shar

[betta blue]

Just contributed $25 to catfish world. I really have appreciated all the info I've gotten from it. Don't know if it will show cause I used Betta Blue but it doesn't matter. I just wanted to thank you for all your help!

Shar

[MatsP]

Male bristlenoses (and other plecos) are generally more reclusive than females - because the male is keen on keeping his cave safe.

--
Mats