DIY breeding caves from larger stones.

[MatsP]

I'm not Håvard and I don't have the same skills with stones and power-tools. But I do like the idea of a cave that is in a large block of stone instead of the "five bits of tile stuck together". And no offence to the guys making caves by sticking slate/tiles together or other such caves - I also have some caves made from white plastic pipe - very basic, they work, but they are not the prettiest!

For my L128 breeding project, I wanted to do somethng better.

So I had a bit of a think, and came up with a plan: Slate chunks can be split into "slices" because of the nature of the material itself. Split a large-ish stoone into three sections "top", "middle" and "bottom". Then cut a chunk or two out of the "middle" bit, and stick it back together with aquarium silicon. The thickness of the middle chunk determines the "height" of the cave - and naturally, the width of the "chunk" cut out will determine the width of the cave. Since I choose to cut straight across the middle part of the slate, I need to cover the "back" of the cave - I choose to use a piece of roofing slate for this purpose.

The process is really that simple. A few tips:
1. Cut one stone at a time, and put it back together before working on the next one. You do not want to play jig-saw puzzle with the pieces later on.
2. Put the cave back together before applying silicon.
3. "Sweep" the internal surfaces with an old paint brush before silicon application.
4. Apply only a small amount of silicon. Applying a thick layer will just make it look bad.
5. Wash caves before putting them in the tank.

Here's some photos of the production process:

A cave, in pieces.

Fitting it together.

All pieces together.

Sticking it together.

These are the tools I used:

Angle grinder (230mm/9" blade).

Angle grinder (can also tile cutter) with suitable diamond blade that can cut the required thickness of slate. A 9" grinder is actually a bit too big, but it's what I've got for other reasons. A 115mm or 180mm is easier to handle, and if the caves aren't very large, should cut deep enough to do the job.

Various other tools.

Wide-blade chisel.
Sledge-hammer.
Old paint-brush.
Silicon pistol.

I will post some photos tomorrow of the final result.

Edit: I should add that angle-grinders are dangeorous - particularly the larger models. The disk on mine spins at nearly 300 km per hour, and if you touch your foot or leg, you may well get badly hurt. Wear good protective clothing, goggles and protect your ears for the noise. I will NOT take any responsibility of anyone hurting themselves - if you do not think you should be working with power-tools like this, don't!

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Mats

[Birger]

Nice, There is a lot of this kind of stone around here, the entrance to the cave is very natural looking, quite often there will be small pieces missing that have the same look as the entrance to your cave.

Birger

[Richard B]

Excellent work Mats - let's hope those 128s appreciate it!

[DutchFry]

that's a great idea mats! certainly looks very natural to me!

the cave seems to be very tight, but maybe it's just the picture. what are the dimensions of the cave it self? and how big is the stone?

[MatsP]

that's a great idea mats! certainly looks very natural to me!

the cave seems to be very tight, but maybe it's just the picture. what are the dimensions of the cave it self? and how big is the stone?

I didn't measure the caves, but I made a few that were a bit bigger, and some that were smaller, to give the fish (particularly the male) something to choose from. If all caves are the same size, they may ALL be the wrong size!

The whole stone is about 20 x 30 x 6 cm / 8 x 12 x 2.5" (this is one of the thinner ones, I had some that were a bit thicker - up to about 10cm/4").

If I had to give a measure of the caves, I'd say about varying between 3 to 5 cm in width and height, and the depth of the whole is as wide as the stone (so about 20 cm or so).

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Mats

[Marko]

very nice idea!

[Haavard Stoere]

Very nice cave U got there Hope to see more caves in this thread.

[Richard B]

Very nice cave U got there Hope to see more caves in this thread.

High praise indeed coming from a man of Haavard's talents!!!

[drpleco]

Very nice looking caves and great idea!

It seems like a lot of folks have been having luck lately with "V" shaped caves. Maybe you could angle the side pieces on a few caves to make a funnel. It'd at least be a bit more variety for your males.

[Phyllonemus]

Good Idea,
maybe is this Idea suitable for my Phyllonemus Typus, for Typus the holes must be wider though.

[MatsP]

Very nice cave U got there Hope to see more caves in this thread.

Thank you very much.

I had planned to get some photos of the tank itself and post them, but other things got in the way, involving a 150 mile/240km round trip to Maidenhead Aquatics in St. Albans which cost me more than I would have liked... ;)

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Mats

[nvcichlids]

Wow, never thought of that, thanks for the inspiration! I will definately make a few and add them around to different tanks and check to see if they are used more than others (for any type of fish, will make larger ones for my auch. catfish to hide, smaller ones for my littler plecos and so on.) I will even make some smaller ones with more holes for my stiphodon gobies.(thanks Glenny and DrGold for the pointing towards finding some!)

[Martin S]

I had planned to get some photos of the tank itself and post them, but other things got in the way, involving a 150 mile/240km round trip to Maidenhead Aquatics in St. Albans which cost me more than I would have liked... ;)

Sorry, OT, but don't keep us in suspense - what did you get?
Martin

[Griparn]

Nice idea! It looks great!

[Jools]

Mats,

How do you block off the back of the cave?

Jools

[MatsP]

Mats,

How do you block off the back of the cave?

Jools

Ah, yes. I had meant to take a photo, but for the usual reason of getting to engrossed in the task to think about such things, I forgot. The back is covered with a piece of roofing slate, stuck on with silicon. I picked slate that naturally had at least one side that was relatively flat (there are often straight edges on slate. If the slate is not flat on both sides, I'd cut it with the angle-grinder to make a flat surface that can have.

Martin, I got a RO Unit, as my old one was only removing about 75% of the "muck" in the water - I was getting water that had a TDS of about 75. Not knowing WHAT the 75 ppm is makes it hard to know what the right mix with my minerals is too - I don't have a pH meter, and the pH "liquid test" is inaccurate at best. Yes, I could have got a new membrane or some such, but I decided to get a new unit instead, as I wanted something that produces a bit more water - went for a 50 gpd unit (about 200 lpd), instead of the 25 gpd/90 lpd unit. Finding someone with a unit in stock was quite hard, and I gave the MA in St Albans a call simply because I have been there. But I also called several branches closer to home, and none of them have any. Apparently, RO-MAN has had problems delivering (I heard a rumour as to why, but I'm not going to spread it - but it is [according to the rumour] not that RO-MAN is in fiancial trouble, which had been my suspicion for a while).

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Mats

[L number Banana]

Any updates to show?
Finally saw the angle grinder you mentioned in another thread -
Mine is not a beast like that! Wow. Maybe I'm missing something in the tool shed...
Mine is a grinder made of a big diamond wheel, fixed in place and oil-fed to keep things cool - definitely not useful for delicate work like you're doing.
Very cool tool. Just as intimidating as a chainsaw but I'm willing to try - with gloves and glasses and full body armor...

[MatsP]

I tried taking some photos, but the tank is in my fishroom, and the space to get in and get a good photo is about 2 feet. All attempts so far has been unsuccessful. But the fish seem to like it.

Delicate work? Not with a 9" grinder - it doesn't do "delicate". And I think a chainsaw is a tiny bit more dangerous because it really cuts into whatever it hits. But they can both do serious damage to the body.

I'd recommend, for this sort of work, a smaller angle-grinder (4.5"/115mm or 6"/150mm) or even a tile-cutter (which sounds like you have a the bigger version of - tile-cutters usually use water for lubrication/cooling and a wheel size between 90-180mm depending on capacity).

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Mats

[L number Banana]

Delicate work? Not with a 9" grinder - it doesn't do "delicate".

I should have been more specific, mine can't do cuts, it can only grind down edges etc. And I wasn't too accurate with my description either! It's not embedded with diamond shavings, it's silicon carbide. I don't have that wheel part anymore. Need a new one but it's pretty far down on the 'need' scale.

This one looks like mine but mine is much older. You can put water or your oil of choice in the reserve under the wheels. Grinds but no saw-cut type things are possible. I suppose I could use the edge of the wheel and make a 'vee'.
http://www.lortone.com/combos_laps.html

[MatsP]

Ah, ok, I understand.

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Mats

[Carp37]

Great idea Mats- the end result looks a damned sight better than my standard pencil-box slate caves for the bristlenose. Best of luck with the breeding project.

[Farid]

hi mats,
i did not read everything...did you use the stones already?? does the silicone still hold? i ask because these kind of stones are some how soft and oily...that's why i wonder how silicone is as connection. (petroleum is made out of these stones... i've heard ...you can smell it a little bit if you break a bigger peace in two... )

about the cutting of the stone...if a machine is to massive maybe a bone saw will do
another version to do caves is to cut out the bigger tunnels of a normal brick!! these are aswell possible to but with a bonesaw...(i've never tried...

OT...: another idea to use smaller peaces of these stones fo,r is to put on a thin food creme layer (blended might be good) on them ...let it dry and hang it in the tank (sturisoma and other fry might thank you

farid

[MatsP]

Silicon seems to hold fine. The five caves I made are in a 1.2m long/45 cm back to front and 35cm tall tank. Been in there since a couple of days after I started this thread.

Not sure if "bone-saw" is the same as a "hacksaw" in English. I suspect you are NOT talking of the instrument that a surgeon uses to cut bones in a human body, as those aren't exactly something you'd go to a regular hardware store to buy.


Picture courtesy of Screwfix.com (without their knowledge).

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Mats

[MatsP]

Whilst playing with my new camera (the old one decided to tell me "no CF card" no matter whether there actually was a CF card in the camera or not), I took a couple of pictures of the caves. Unfortunately, there is quite a bit of splashes and muck on the glass, as well as reflections of stuff kept opposite the tank [this is a really old tank, and it's quite scratched on the front glass, which doesn't help either]. Believe it or not, this is the best I've managed to do:

The picture shows two caves entrances, and the rock to the right is another cave.

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Mats

[turfboss]

I was about to go buy some PVC pipe (which I think is not the most aesthetic looking in the tank) when I came across these articles about building caves from rock - since I have all the equipment (as part of laying synthetic turf we also do landscaping and build walls and lay patios and walkways - so I have all the stone cutting tools from the little 4.5" DeWalt angle grinder to a 12" circular stone saw (even bigger than your 9" (but with a little practice you can cut almost anything you want and be pretty close to what you desire) - I also have lots of materials (three pallets of various rock, stone and slate) so think I might just build some for sale to others here in the US. In any case great posts (albeit a couple of years ago) but still 100% relevant. Just have to figure out what sizes but as one poster said - make a bunch with different sized openings for different sized fish - AND - I loved the thought of hollowing out (or making and inverted (flat bottomed "V" for the opening) to provide more room inside for the eggs and for the male. If any of the previous builders have inputs on what worked best for the ones they built posting that info would be really great --