Is my trilineatus sick?

[dachewitt]

I have a concern about one of my trilineatus cories, that started after another died in March. The one that died, Pepper, I had had since October (and unfortunately suffered from my ignorance through cycling a 10 gallon). In January, I started a 20 gallon Long and moved the cories and neons I had in there, and after quarantine built up to 3 trilineatus, 2, aeneus, 2 leucomalus, 6 white cloud mountain minnows, and 5 neons. All the fish have been in the tank since mid-February. Everything seemed to be fine, except that Pepper hid in the back more than the others and was always the last to the food, but he did appear to be eating.

Two days after a water change, on 3/16/09, Pepper came to the front of the tank with a blister over his eye. Then shortly after, a second blister appeared over the other eye. I did a 50% water change but he died. When I examined him, his abdomen looked pink so I treated the entire tank with Maracyn II, in case it was septicemia. I thought one aeneus was dying too, because of how she was lying in the corner but in fact, she way laying eggs.

I still wonder what triggered Pepper's death-I did move the airstone and probed under the driftwood-could my sand be toxic? The depth varies from 1/2 in to 1 1/2 in. most through the tank. My water is a mix of softened well water with bottled drinking water mixed (3/1 ratio).

My current concern is one of the other trilineatus seems to rest more with her dorsal fin down and does not play as often with the others in the air bubbles. This has been going on for 2 weeks now. It still is eating, but I want to intervene if this is a sign of illness. Any suggestions to solve my mystery and keep my fish healthy would be helpful.

Tank Parameters:
20 gallon long, running since 1/09
NH3-0, No2-0, NO3-10
pH- 7.8
GH- 3
KH- 7
Temp. 74 degrees F
Sand substrate, moderately planted with pots of swords, java fern, anachris, and anubius nana
50% Water changes weekly, vacuuming and probing bottom to stir sand

Thank you,
Debbie

[L number Banana]

Hi Debbie,
I'm definitely not the expert here but I did notice a couple things that stand out a bit. Can you change the water enough to get zero reading or almost on your nitrate and especially zero on nitrite? It might just be higher 'cos the tank's newly set-up. It would still have some cycling to do. Water changes will help keep them down as the tank matures.

Also maybe you can check your wellwater to be sure there's nothing funny in it that might affect fish but is safe for humans. I'm thinking run-off from other sources.
The sand shouldn't be a problem if it was rinsed well and is soft enough for the corys to snuffle around in without damage to their barbels. Did it come from a source that you're worried about?

How's the fish doing now?
Just noticed too that you said softened well-water. What's the softener? Salt-type stuff? Can you get some of the water before it goes through the softener?

[dachewitt]

Hi-
To clarify-ammonia and nitrite are 0 and nitrate is 10 just before a water change-I'll do an extra this week to see if that helps.

Only one cory seems affected by whatever is going on (other than the one I lost last month). The other fish are much more active. The other trilineatus spends more time schooling with the leucomalus on the back glass. The one I'm watching joins occasionally, but spends more time resting and sometimes has her fin down.

The sand is play sand. I was only concerned because in an area that had driftwood and anachris planted, when I stirred some of the underlying sand was black. I usually just probe under the plants, but that week I really stirred more.

Yes, my water is softened with salt, and I am not able to access the water before it is softened (I really tried, but we're in a marina where they even pressure wash boats with softened water). I have a neighbor on the same system that has silver dollar tetras and a larger catfish that he says are 10 years old, and the fish look well. He only conditions the water with Seachem neutral regulator. I use Aqua Plus conditioner and mix in drinking water to restore some of the calcium and magnesium. Maybe I ought to switch to his conditioner but it decreases those minerals and I would think fish need some in the water.

One other consideration-I've had a hard time with algae (probably my water), and even had what I think was blue-green. After losing the cory I pulled most of the plants/leaves with it and so far the BGA hasn't returned, but it is a constant battle to keep the other plants clean. Could the algae make fish sick?

Thanks again,
Debbie

[L number Banana]

Hi,
If your friend's fish (catfish) do fine with the water then I guess there's not enough salt in it to bother the fish? I use rainwater when I can get it and bottle spring water when there's no rain or snow. It has some mineral content.

It's possible that the fish that died and the one that seems unhappy were bothered by something when you got them. On the good side whatever killed the first one and is making the other one less active etc doesn't sound like it's moved to the other fish. I'm not sure what else there is to do?? I guess you're doing it by keeping an eye out for anything more informative.

One other consideration-I've had a hard time with algae (probably my water), and even had what I think was blue-green. After losing the cory I pulled most of the plants/leaves with it and so far the BGA hasn't returned, but it is a constant battle to keep the other plants clean. Could the algae make fish sick?

You're right, bluegreen algae can be toxic and is a devil to get rid of forever but you can do alot to make sure it never comes back in any way that's worrisome. First would be to keep stirring the sand that you see the darker areas. I had a dark area on my sand that was in a low circulation area and worried it was the same thing. I moved the powerhead so that there would be better flow there and it's never been back. On UK Aquatic Plant society, I read that the best thing is to make sure the flow is good in the whole tank. As your plants and tank matures, there won't be enough nutrient in the water for it to grow.
Maybe the best thing here is the old patience thing, let nature keep balancing it.

[dachewitt]

Thanks again for the input.

How do you store rainwater to use for the fish? I have access to rainwater stored in a 55 gal plastic barrel, but worried about using it because it has been sitting and cycled for a couple of years now for gardening. Would that water be safe for fish? Or should it be chlorinated, then dechlorinated to be sure I'm not adding something else to the tank. The tank is covered with the black material that is used in gardens.

Debbie

[L number Banana]

Hi,
I use a 20 litre wine pail. It sits on my patio away from any roof runoff (old house!) and I just have netting on the top. When that's full, I move it inside and put a loose lid on it and put the second pail outside. Since there's nothing in the rain - I hope!- I use it straight as is. If you need to warm it up to match the temperature off your tank, just drop in a hot water bottle and stick a thermometer to the inside.

It's still pretty cold here right now so I've gone so far as to microwave a bowlful of the rainwater and dump it into the cold water before the hot water bottle goes in.

As far as the water already in your rainbarrel, I think it would be okay since it's been stored in plastic. It shouldn't need any chlorination because it should be pure rainwater, totally yummy. Might taste like plastic to us. Is it always replenished when it rains or is it full and no extra water goes in? Test it with any tests you have to see if it comes up as soft. The rain here is about 6.4 ph. I haven't checked to see what comes up for hardness etc. Will have to try that.
There's a camping technique that will kill off all but the worse water critters that you could try if you're worried about microbes. Just put the water in something clear and let it bake in the sun for at least 4 hours. I don't think it would kill off nasty human things like cholera but it will wipe out any little microbes. I guess they get baked in the UV? Not exactly sure, I just remember seeing that as a technique for people that have to use iffy water sources in the woods.
Maybe one of our more science minded people might see this thread and offer a bit more direction.
I just remembered that my father in law empties his rainbarrels to fill his koi pond in the spring. They're pretty pricey koi so it must be okay.