L-184? or not?

[aznb0i]

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/ ... 1238179112

Just wondering what you guys think? To me I believe these are not L-184. If I'm correct L-184 has bigger spot and less dots. The photo looks more like a L-213. Also. what I observe is when the L-184 male mature their bristle tends to look just like the L-34.

[Karsten S.]

Hi,

I do agree, those ancistrus does not look like L 184 although the foto is really bad.
The size of the spots is not a good characteristic as it varies a lot in this species.
To my mind this does not exclude the ones in the pic from being L 184.

Yes, the bristles are somehow special with L 184, but you need mature ones for this.
I would recommend to consider also the caudal fin, this is very different from nearly all other ancistrus (besides A. sp. Portel and perhaps some very few others).

Cheers,

[sunfish]

Hi,

the picture's really quite useless. I've got 5 L184, and I don't think that those in the picture are L184. They are quite small, and I'd expect brilliantly white tips on their caudal fin. Plus, all my animals have smaller dots on the head and slightly larger ones towards the tail. Though this might vary from population to population.

But 100 bucks for three juveniles!?!?!?! I paid about $8 a piece for mine. If you are going to fork out that amount of money I'd demand a better picture where the caudal fin is clearly visible.

[Karsten S.]

Hi,

young males can have quite "normal" antennas:

My specimen also have larger spots towards the tail.

The tips of the caudal fin are usually somehow white, but this can also be less obvious like here:


But what is IMO always present is the special forked form of the caudal fin with filaments which is quite unique in Ancistrus.

Cheers,

[aznb0i]

Thanks you all have been very helpful!

how about these:
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/ ... 1237858615

[Karsten S.]

Hi,

definitely no L 184 (which is the same as L 107 btw) and also no L 183.
And in my eyes this not even Ancistrus (very flat, no antennas, but neverless odontodes like a male...).

My guess would be L 17 or something similar, but nice fish.

Cheers,

[aznb0i]

one of them has the antennas. So maybe 2 different species?

[sunfish]

Hi,

I'd say these definitely are Ancistrus (you can even see the name-giving hooked interopercular odontodes) and good pictures for a change. Crappy design of his add, though, with all the colors and flashing and stuff.

Again, definitely not L184/107. They appear to have remains of a white seam which they are in the process of losing. What they are I can't say, there are several species of black ancistrus with white spots. Probably the same as in the first ad. Nice-looking fish.

[Karsten S.]

Hi,

I have taken a closer look on the pics again and now I'm quite sure that this is indeed Hopliancistrus sp. "L 17".
I still don't see any antennas in none of the five pictures; in the third picture one can see to my mind the interopercular odontodes and not antennas.

But you can clearly see three hooked interpercular odontodes which is typical for Hopliancistrus.
IMHO definitely no Ancistrus.
However, in the first ad there were definitely Ancistrus, but impossible to say which one.

Cheers,

[aznb0i]

http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/show ... hp?t=74719

What about those? are they L-184? the first photo.

[pleco_breeder]

Kamas,

Sorry, but definitely not Hopliancistrus. Not my pics above, but I did get a few of the recent L184. Only possible species I'm aware of, and I haven't been able to discount because I've never seen them, is

Ancistrus sp`portel`

Below are pics of the L184 in my tanks. I'm fairly sure of the ID based upon the caudal fin shape, proportions, and color. However, I'm willing to entertain other species suggestions. Definitely Ancistrus though.







Larry Vires

[Karsten S.]

Hello Larry,

are you sure that we are talking about the same pics ?!
The ones I was referring to are no longer accessible...

Your pics definitely show Ancistrus sp. but to my mind it's not L 184. L 184 does not have such thick spines in the caudal fin (however, this is difficult to see clearly in the pics).
Furthermore the eyes seem me to be too big for L 184. What is the size of your fish ?!

The big eyes remind me of A. macrophthalmus, I think your fish are close to this species. In the book of Ingo Seidel (L cat atlas 2) there is a similar one called A. sp. "Brasilien" (from Bresil).

Cheers,

[pleco_breeder]

Kamas,

The fish in my pics are the ones from that specific auction. I didn't bid, but contacted the seller to buy a larger group from the import. Another group came from a different source, but hasn't had time to settle enough to verify or guess at species yet. These are approximately 3 inches SL, with the largest at 3 1/2. No pic of the largest yet. I only took those pics yesterday because I had tinkered around in the tank and scared the majority of them out of hiding.

I don't have access to most of my library, still packed up from moving to a new house, does anyone have counts for A. macropthalmus which may be used?

Larry

[Karsten S.]

Hello Larry,

this seems to be a A. macrophthalmus (LDA 74):
http://www.thomas-pritzkow.de/Bilder/We ... FEMALE.JPG
http://www.thomas-pritzkow.de/Bilder/We ... MALE01.JPG

Cheers,

[pleco_breeder]

Kamas,

I found those pics this morning after posting, but was hoping for something a bit more solid. Based upon the pics, I think the A. macropthalmus ID is incorrect. The dorsal is not as far posterior in my fish as in the LDA74 pics. Also, I have one obvious male which still shows the spot pattern as strongly as the females. Do you know of pics of A. sp. "Brasilien" online? to compare? I'm still unsure of the possibility of A. sp. Portel, but difficult to judge based on the single photo in the catelog.

Larry

[Karsten S.]

Hi Larry,

yes, that's what I wanted to say, close but not really A. macrophthalmus.

The only pic of A. sp. "Brasilien" that I know is from Ingo Seidel and it's show the dorsal view.
The fit is good but it's difficult to say if it's really the same...

Cheers,

[pleco_breeder]

I can admit that I don't know anything more about what species they are aside from the L184 label they were imported with, not always an accurate method of ID However, they are apparently a very hardy species in my tanks anyway. Practically no time in my tanks and a bacterial patch on the largest male from shipping stress has already cured, and the head gear of all the males has easily doubled in size. Two of them have even staked out caves and been doing the customary fin fluttering version of flirting. The females don't appear to be getting any fatter yet, but in such a slender fish I don't know that I could notice a difference in a dark tank.

Larry