red-spotted bristlenose

[sunfish]

I got this little guy a while ago. And I'm still not quite sure what he is. I got him as L89, but that seems to be the default "spotted bristlenose" L number of the shop as I recently got my L107 under the same number.

When the picture was taken he had about 2" and has maybe grown an inch in the past 8 months. In reality the spots are more reddish brown than in the picture. He's a bit shy, so I don't have a recent picture.

He looks a bit like the fish pictured in the catfish Alas II under L89 (but nothing like the L89 here). And I don't think it's A. spec "Rio Paragauy" because my fish has un unpatterned belly whereas Rio Paraguay has a spotted belly. And my guy has only 6 soft rays in the dorsal fin, and Rio Paraguay has 7 (I think).

So, any ideas what he is?

[fischkringli]

Could be an annormal coloured pl*co?

[Karsten S.]

Hi,

I think this is a species that is called A. sp. "Wabenmuster" (in Germany), which means "pattern of (honey) comb"; it is not scientifically desbribed nor has it a L number.
It was imported together with L 89 from Brasilia. It should be kept a bit warmer than the ordinary bristlenose but besides this it is quite similar.

Here you can find some pictures for comparison: http://www.l-welse.com/reviewpost/showp ... oduct/1072

Cheers,

[fischkringli]

If it is a Wabenschilderwels, you have a friend for live!
My father has had one: 50cm long and 34 years old!!!

[sunfish]

Hi,

this is definitely a bristlenose, as you can see from the tentacles on his snout. Besides, if it was a common aka "Wabi" it should be at least about three times as big by now.

I don't think it is a spec. "Wabenmuster" either. For one, it should have a light reddish seam on its caudal fin (the catfish atlas distinguishes between L89 and spec. "Wabenmuster" by that seam in that it's there in young spec. "Wabenmuster" and totally absent in L89). I've never seen them in real life, but all pix show them with a reticulated pattern on the belly, which mine doesn't have. And finally, adult spec. "Wabenmuster" still show a very clear honeycomb pattern. I try and get a recent pic of mine, but the pattern is now much more iregular than it was.

[sunfish]

I spent ages yesterday in front of the tank he's in. He is really shy, I hardly ever see him. But I managed to get a few shots. As you can see, his coloration has changed quite a bit.

[fischkringli]

It is defenetly no Wabi but it could be an Ancistrus sp. schildpatt, we in germany say.

[Karsten S.]

Hi,

yes, I agree, this is not A. sp. "Wabenmuster" and certainly not "Schildpatt", this is a juvenile "Schildpatt":

and here are more pics of A. sp. "Schildpatt".

Hmmm, never seen anything similar. I guess you don't know where it originally came from ?!
What's the size ?

Cheers,

[Yann]

Hi!!

Then eventually a hybrid!!!
The colouration change is strange and would lead me into beliving it could eventually be an hybrid
Any info on the origin??
Cheers
Yann

[sunfish]

Other than that it's wildcaught and was sold to me as L89 (so very likely Brazil ) I have no idea. This was the oddball in the shipment.

I looked through the catfish atlas, and the only thing that came somewhat close was A. damasceni. But the distribution isn't even close to where L89 comes from, and if they get to 8" and are supposed to have few bristles i doubt that at 3" it should look like mine. But at least the fish on the photo appears to have 6 soft rays in the dorsal fin.

[MatsP]

But at least the fish on the photo appears to have 6 soft rays in the dorsal fin.

6 soft rays is VERY common in Ancistrus, so it's basically just saying that it's not A. dolichopterus, which I could have told you from a very blurry photo - the fish is not black, and hasn't got white spots.

--
Mats

[Karsten S.]

Hi Mats,

7 soft rays is very common in Ancistrus, 6 and 8 (or more in L 183) is the exception.

Cheers,

[Mats H. O. Hansen]

On the first picture, i think it looked a bit like ancistrus sp. honeycomb or a L-089.

[sunfish]

I'm still trying to get some info on A. damasceni. My fish also has only 3 soft rays in its anal fin, which would also fit. I know there is an article in a German aquarist magazine (from 11 years ago, still trying to get hold of it), but this seems to be the only source from somebody who has actually kept them. If anybody is aware of any further info, I'd appreciate it.

BTW, does anybody know if there is an identification key for Ancistrus somewhere? I mean something where you get to measure distances, count rays and so on.

[sunfish]

I just got the first description of A. damasceni from 1907. And they have 7 soft rays in the dorsal. So that doesn't fit either.

I'm guessing he is more or less fully grown now and has reached a whooping 3". Here are two more pictures from yesterday.

I guess I'll call him A. spec. "Rotflecken 2" and leave it at that.

[Jackster]

My thoughts are that this is

Ancistrus sp`rio_paraguay`

.

http://www.l-welse.com/reviewpost/showp ... 064/cat/44

[Yann]

Hi!!

I would agree the last pictures show Ancistrus sp Rio Paraguay "Red Point"

Still I have this species, and also successfully bred those and none of the young show a change in pattern at that age... the only change of colour and pattern was at a much younger stage... so I sort of find this very strange...

Cheers
Yann

[sunfish]

It most probably is something similar to A. sp. Rio Paraguay. But there are two things that don't fit. One is the number of soft rays in the dorsal, my fish has 6, A. sp. Rio Paraguay has 7. Plus they have a spotted belly which mine also doesn't have. I have been told that there are also A. sp. Rotflecken with a "naked" belly, but I haven' seen them yet.

[Yann]

Hi!!

There is the population from the Rio Paraguay which was imported sometime ago and has been bred a few times ( I have those) and yes they have a spotted belly...

I know this fish has been found in Bolivia also, possibly a small variation in the popoulation depending of the catching locality!!

Cheers
Yann

[sunfish]

Still not closer to an ID, BUT I managed to get a second one. The people in the shop had no idea where it came from. Most likely it came as contaminant with the "Otocinclus negros" aka LG2. They sold it as a common bristlenose for 4 Euros. Yay. Now let's hope this one's a girl.

Since LG2 ist found in the Rio Paraná, whose mayor tributary is the Rio Paraguay, this could well be a close relative of A. spec. 'Rio Paraguay'.

[sunfish]

I just wanted to give an update on my mystery Ancistrus. It tunrs out that the second one was, indeed, a girl, and a few weeks back I found a single offspring. Not a particularly great outcome, but my first sucessful ancistrus breeding. Yeah.

Here's a (not very good) picture of the offspring with Dad in front.


And here's the proud Dad (the same fish I've been posting pictures of here). He's about 4-5 inches now.


They really do not make particularly good models.