Real Plants vs. Silk Plants

[Greg Curtis]

I've always used silk plants in my tanks probably because I keep large cichlids and thing get torn up and uprooted. I'm toying with the idea of real plants in my upcoming 90g pleco tank. How much trouble are live -plants to get growing and to care for. Seen pics of tanks with live plants that are so beautiful looking that I really can't duplicate with silks. Any suggestions? My tank is 48" long 18" wide and 24" high and I'm using a single Actinic 03 bulb to keep the light low for the plecos. I think they will be more active with the low light. What about a good substrate. Was planning on using Eco Complete. Thanks

[andywoolloo]

All my tanks have live plants and I have regular florescent lighting. I dose with seachem florish in my replacement tank water once a week.

I have:

amazon swords
anubias nana
anubias Barteri
crypts
java fern
anachrius
water wisteria

as far as substrate all my tanks have sand.

[Greg Curtis]

What kind of fluorescent lighting are you using as I'm sure my actinic 03 isn't going to be enough. I would like to use low light plants in the tank.

[andywoolloo]

Hagen 20 watt T8, I have a 75 gal, 50 gal, 40 gal and three ten gals. Each has the single strip.
I like the ones called Aqua Glo but I have also tried Sun Glo, I like them both.

ETA it also says 18,000 K on the box. But I think they are all different. The ones for my ten gals are 15 watt and the the 50 and 40 gals are 20 watt and the 75 is 40 watt.

[MatsP]

As Andy says, many plants are fine with regular lighting and little or no care.

You have to look into the care of each type of plant - some are more demanding when it comes to light or nutrition than others. Fast-growing plants often need more nutrition than slow-growing plants (for obvious reasons).

Actinic 03 tubes are intense blue, which is meant for marine tanks, not for tropical freshwater (at least not planted) setups, so I would recommend that you use regular tropical tubes - e.g. "Daylight" or "SpectraMax" (those are trademark names for some tubes I found on the web when searching for fluorescent tubes - I use Arcadia Freshwater and Original Tropical, which are about the same as the above).

--
Mats

[OldMan]

Your 40 watt bulb over a 90 gallon tank will not grow any plants. You will need to get at least a 2 tube shop light with T-8 bulbs to grow even java fern or anubias nana. More light demanding plants will of course need more light. The 03 actinic is not a very good lamp temperature for plants either. Your best bet for plants is a lamp rated at a spectrum between 5000K and 10000K, with the best combination being several different lamps in that range. Because fluorescent lamps tend to emit light in very narrow frequencies, a group of different ones will give a more even light spectrum through the range.

[Greg Curtis]

I think I'll just stick with the silk plants. A whole lot less trouble and maintenance. thanks guys!

[MatsP]

But what about the satisfaction of knowing that you are growing REAL plants?

--
Mats

[Richard B]

Both silk & real can provide shelter for cats, but i'd go for real every time, only because they can provide a food source at odd times & they produce O2, remove CO2 & remove nitrates - surely an advantage, anubias & java fern need minimal light, are tough as old boots, grow on rocks & wood & are ideal for use with most cats!

[Haavard Stoere]

Real plants are beautiful, but serves little purpose in a a tank for big ciclids and catfish. They remove some nitrates from the water, but not significantly enough to make any difference. Actually I prefer not to use live or artficial plants at all in such tanks. With the use of sand, rocks or driftwood or a combination of these you can make some really lovely landscapes. Landscapes without plants usually look more biotope like than with plants. They are also more energy efficient since they require less light.

If you like to keep silk plants you should continue to keep them. Keep yourself and your fish happy with lots of good food and fresh water

[andywoolloo]

There are some really beautiful silk plants out there that's for sure.

[L number Banana]

Hi, take a boo at the latest issue of Aquarium Fish International (march 09), it has 3 'Impossible' set-ups for planted tanks with LOTS of fish. Author is also in FAMA (Freshwater & Marine Aquarium Mag) . One of the tanks is for 'eartheaters', jurupari, digging up-rooting fish. It's set up like mine, mega plants etc in the back and soft sifty stuff in the front two thirds. He's had it set up for two years, happy fish, happy plants.

If you're undecided, try buying a banana plant first (cheapie plant, looks a bit like water lily)- you can pretty much throw it over your shoulder into the tank and it will do great. I no longer believe a written word about them - I have them in a north window tank (natural light only), a low-light and a super bright light tank. They all look the same and grow great. If they rest on the surface, they send roots down, if you half bury the 'bananas' like is recommended, they send roots down...I have them in brackish with the mollies, they're fine, freshwater? fine. Keep an opentop tank, you get tiny flowers. Otos love them.

And if you decide they suck, it's only 3 bucks or so out the window Also just about any cheapie plant can be tossed in like that to give you a few weeks to decide before you go through the trouble of taking the minipot off and planting it properly. Just stick a rock in front of the pot to hide it and you can decide later. I threw my spiral vals in like that when I was on my way back out of the house and promptly forgot about them. Now they've all got runners and roots coming out the sides - two weeks maybe? Probably doing better than if I'd done it right!

Nothing is written in stone and nothing will ever be 'finished' or perfect but it's fun trying eh?

[Greg Curtis]

Still undecided on the live plant thing but wanted to ask a question. Would Eco Complete be a good substrate for my plants. I'll be keeping plecos and probably some corys in the tank. Anyone ever heard of Eco Complete harming plecos or catfish in general. Read something on a different forum about some guy's catfish dying from a bacterial infection which he thinks came from using Eco Complete.

[MatsP]

Still undecided on the live plant thing but wanted to ask a question. Would Eco Complete be a good substrate for my plants. I'll be keeping plecos and probably some corys in the tank. Anyone ever heard of Eco Complete harming plecos or catfish in general. Read something on a different forum about some guy's catfish dying from a bacterial infection which he thinks came from using Eco Complete.

I doubt very much that bacterial infections would be caused directly by Eco Complete (or other similar products). The only concern I would have is that it may be sharp and harm corys barbels. I'd expect plecos to be ok with such a substrate.

However, you can always lay a layer of gravel or sand on top of the Eco Complete - the roots will find the Eco Complete, for sure (obviously, if you have fish that dig, e.g. earth-eaters, it will eventually all mix into one thing!)

Finally, I do not use special "plant substrate" in any of my tanks - or anything else "special" to grow plants. Just regular aquatic fluorescent tubes, gravel and/or sand, and some plants that I've found from experience works well in my environments. Note that different plants like warmer/cooler water, more or less light, etc. I have bought several plants that didn't work for some reason. But individual plants aren't usually that expensive, so if you are not sure, buy one or a few cheap ones to try out. If it works, just add more [if needed - I'm self-supplying plants to many of my tanks]! If it doesn't, move on to something else. Obviously, a good LFS will be able to help you out with "easy" plants, and advise you on the right plants for your setup.

--
Mats

[L number Banana]

e.g. earth-eaters, it will eventually all mix into one thing!)

If you plant it with the dividers like in the magazine article, they can't really mix like a layered tank. There would be some overflow from the top shelf/terrace but the fish would really have to fling it to get it over the wall. But then again, some fish are pretty strong Some of the bigger ones I've seen here could probably push a wall around if it wasn't siliconed down! The root mass in the back of my tank is starting to form a nice mat so I'm guessing a catfish wouldn't find that tempting to burrow into. I've been wrong a zillion times before so this is just a thought.

There's always the planter method that I mentioned in the earlier thread. Soft plastic and non permanent.

I've felt the eco-complete recently and it might be kind of scratchy, I'd stick with MatP's suggestion or flourite. Also Eco-complete comes from a pretty well respected company so I'm sure there would be no chance of anything nasty being in it. Did this person get it tested? Sounds fishy to me but not in a good way.

[Greg Curtis]

I read that thing about eco complete over on the waterwolves forum. Guy said his catfish got so bad that their skin starting coming off and he could see their muscular system before they finally died. Said the only thing new in his tank was the eco complete. Sounds kind of fishy to me too but something happened. So regular sand and lighting is fine to use. Thats good as it will save me a bunch of money. I'll pick up a copy of that mag and check out that article you referenced Banana. Thanks again guys for your knowledge.

[Greg Curtis]

Okay, I've decided to give this live plants a try. I have a couple of questions first so bear with me. My tank isn't set up yet so I'm starting from scratch. When I cycle my tank I want to do it with liquid ammonia instead of fish. Will the ammonia hurt the plants in anyway. Can I add Flourish right away for the plants or should I wait until after the tank has cycled. I plan on using a bed of gravel underneath ordinary play or pool filter sand. My lighting I have doubts about. My tank only has a single strip with a T12 bulb. What kind of lighting would I need to be adequate. Maybe a new hood with T5 bulbs. What wattage should be enough. I'd like to use low light plants like Anubuas, Crypts, Swords and maybe some Hydrocoytle. Plan on letting the tank sit for a few weeks after its cycled to be sure everything is the way I want it and the plants and driftwood look right. If anyone has any suggestionws jump in and tell me. Thanks guys!

[MatsP]

Plants LOVE ammonia, so there's no reason to not have plants in at that point.

How much light you need for a specific tank size, but a 48" long and 18" wide tank, I use 1 T8 (42") tube for a tank that has the same base-size as yours. However, it's only 15" outside height, and the water level is about 12" deep. For deeper water, you need more light, as water is a good "absorber" of light. Maybe two T12 or T8 lights would work ok?

A T5 light unit is of course GREAT - but also a fair bit more expensive.

--
Mats

[Greg Curtis]

How would this lighting setup work for my 90g planted tank. Enough light for the plants. Plan on using low - med light plants.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=12109

[OldMan]

Those light fixtures would work fine for your situation. The bulbs need to be chosen for plants instead of the bulbs in the picture that would be better for a salt water reef tank.

[Greg Curtis]

Don't see any plant bulbs with a 4 sraight pin 21" configuration. Coralife makes a 10000K 65w, 10000K 55w, and 6700K 55w. Which one would you say is the best for my purposes. Comes with 2 10000K 65W Daylight tubes and 2 65W Actinic 03 tubes.

[MatsP]

I'd go for another 10000K or 6700K variety - the 10000K will be slightly more towards the bright white/blue, whilst the 6700K would be a reddish tint. The one you want to get rid of is the Actinic one. If you buy this in person from a LFS, I'd ask if they would take the Actinic one out and you only pay (say) half for the replacement bulb. Online is unlikely to do you that sort of favour.

--
Mats

[Greg Curtis]

Thanks Old Man and Mats!

[LitZer]

I don't see anything wrong with using Silk Plants instead of real plants. It is just in the art of arranging them, you can opt to combine real ones with silk ones. Also, I have limited time to take care of real plants so instead I have just bought silk plants and I think they are looking great.