Pseudacanthicus sp L25 "Scarlet" : another breeding tale

[ElTofi]

The countdown is lightly better... it seems thats this morning, there's less white eggs or dead larvae than usual. I was able to count them this morning. Finally, it seems my estimation was completely wrong... This morning at 7.30, there were 77 larvae, which seem to be alright... Plus 8 eggs still unhatched.

I thought that there was around 200 eggs at the beginning, but it was all wrong... I made a countdown every morning and every evening and I can tell you I lost around 180 eggs those last 4 days...

Normally, the hatch should have happened from this last night (Spawning + 7-8 days at 27°C). But as you know, due to the poor handling and conditions, the first larvae hatched from Monday-Tuesday (spawning + 4-5 days)... the first larvae were "not finished" and were easy to wound or to infect by bacterias. The today larvae are quiet well developped, with a nice form, a beginning of an eye, a noticeable cardio system, some little ties... it beginns to look better... much better...

Based on those last spawning experiences, I would have learn a few good things :

1. Don't bother about the eggs, as long as you can leave it to the Dad...
2. If you can't leave it with Dad, use an old tank, already done, naked ground, much filtered for the eggs, the larvae and even the youngsters... too many risks to use a woody or rocky hardscape (bacterias)...

From now on, that will be my only way !

[five]

Hi Chris, may I know what's the book that your referring to when you mentioned 'Igos'?

I would really like to grab hold of the book to read on his experince on raising fry.

Thanks.

[MatsP]

I think "Igos" refers to "Ingo Seidel", who has written at least a couple of books and many articles about Plecos.

--
Mats

[ElTofi]

Thats so sad to see!

...Fry and eggs are problematic to rais atrificially. In Igos latest book, he talks about this and how to prevent high death numbers. Cristoffer

Are you talking about the "Wels Atlas II" or the "back to nature - Lwelse" ?

I have both of them but I must say I haven't looked for information on this very subject... I will take a look at it tonight... thanks for the advice.

[five]

Hey this is the book I have been waiting for my lfs to bring in. I didn't know there's a Atlas II. Is it being translated to english?

I have a glance at it from the supplier. It looks informative, a must have I believe.

[MatsP]

Hey this is the book I have been waiting for my lfs to bring in. I didn't know there's a Atlas II. Is it being translated to english?

I have a glance at it from the supplier. It looks informative, a must have I believe.

Catfish Atlas II is being translated to English, due out this spring.

--
Mats

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Hey this is the book I have been waiting for my lfs to bring in. I didn't know there's a Atlas II. Is it being translated to english?

I have a glance at it from the supplier. It looks informative, a must have I believe.

Catfish Atlas II is being translated to English, due out this spring.

--
Mats

Great! Finaly! Is the book updated? There has been several succesfull breeding sens the german orginal I think...
Whats the big differences with the Back To Nature book?

Cristoffer

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Thats so sad to see!

...Fry and eggs are problematic to rais atrificially. In Igos latest book, he talks about this and how to prevent high death numbers. Cristoffer

Are you talking about the "Wels Atlas II" or the "back to nature - Lwelse" ?

I have both of them but I must say I haven't looked for information on this very subject... I will take a look at it tonight... thanks for the advice.

I'm talking about the Back To Nature from Ingo Seidel. The part about breeding! Its very informative and helpful

[Mod edit: Clean up messy post --Mats]

[ElTofi]

You really have to learn this "quote thing" indeed

IMHO the main difference between "Back to nature" and "Wels Atlas" is simply the quantity of informations. To me, Wels Atlas I & II are much more complete than the BTN. In WA, you have plenty of pictures and informations on the Genus, species, var. but also on the biotopes, the specificities about each fish, some breeding reports, and so on...

I heard that IS was having a very hard job theses last weeks to finish the 2nd edition of WA...

Maybe it's the opportunity of opening another topic ? If nobody does before, I will do that tomorrow, with scans of the plain cover.

[Cristoffer Forssander]

When I'm quote, I have to do it a lot!

I'm really looking forward to this translation!

[ElTofi]

53 survivors... very poor performance

BUT... first good news from at least one week... No death in the last 15 hours... and believe me, it's a real relief

a few today pictures





and finally, the 3rd fish, which is not formally sexed yet... but still wonderfull

[Cattleya]

Salü
Gratuliere "hop Schwiz"

Lg Udo

[ElTofi]

Danke Udo

Hopp Schwiz

[ElTofi]

I spent a lot of time these last days observing my Pseuda L25. Shot quiet a lot of pictures too. I'm only sure about the sexing of the pair, of course... but then, I'm thinking of different criterias for sexing this Pseuda... Actually, I only can display 3 points (based only on my observations and not prooven as a scientifical evidence) :

Colors and body shape

- the male is definitely more thin and longer. It tends to be less massive than the female. The head section is longer than the female.
- the male (my male ?) is more "red with black" than the female. It seems red and not black. The female is like an photo negative : "black with red"



Dorsal and caudal fins

- the female has a lower dorsal fin, even if it's deployed. The male wears it like a flag, much higher...
- the male has a much longer caudal fin, with long lobes (5 cm), the female hasn't any (maybe due to her "nuptial wounds".)

pectorals odontodes3.

- this picture to feature the pectoral odontodes by the female. Not very developped on the female, and much less thick than by the male. The same for the interopercular, which are much more big and thick by the male. I think it's a good criteria to sex at least my Pseuda yet.

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Hi!

I think I also ha some general sexual differences in the genus there as well.

Differences in dorsal fins and Pelvic fins.
Differences on bodey shape, head, odontodes and so on.

The atricle about L114 and L600 displays the same differences and this is also my experience abot Pseudacanthicus.

Would you say that the male as more orontodes around the head and that the head is broader, seen from above?

Do you think that this general differences for L320?

Of cource, color varietys differ som species to species...

Do yo think that the following body area is more massive in males than in females? (I'm not sure what this bodypart is called)



I think that this area is more massive in males in several genus, Hypancistrus, Leporacanthicus, Ancistrus and so on...




Cristoffer

[ElTofi]

Hello all,

I think this spawning is not very representative of a "normal" one... Especially concerning the growth. Several eggs hatched long before they should have, because of my handling. The hatch lasted during 3 days. And the first hatching was 1-2 days before a "normal" hatching time (which is, if my L320 experience is right : 7 days at 28°C)

I still have around 50 youngsters all around the nursery tank, but mainly under the internal filter, where I'm unable to shoot them properly. So I took off the tank 4 youngsters, using a pipe. They are back in a clean floating nursery, just to follow better their evolution and growing.

Here they are :





50 youngsters on a start situation of more than 200 sooooooooooo miserable OK, some could say it's better than nothing... and I would agree... but still

[Mr.Sunshine]

Hello,

great job. I hope that all remaining frys will survive. As you've told, you've learned a lot of your mistakes and I think the next time, you will not do the same mistakes again.
But what i want to say is, that you can be very proud of yourself spawning L25. Many people, especially me would be proud to spawn Leporacanthicus sp.
I cross my fingers, that there won't be any more losses.

Cheers from Munich, Germany

Adrian

[Haavard Stoere]

Congratulations Eitofi

[ElTofi]

According to the "reality", we are at hatching + 6 days...
According to a "normal" development, it seems more like hatching + 3 days...
I think we could easily say that the hatch begun 3 days too early...

Whatever... here are the pictures of day 6 :

You can already discover the huge sucker mouth, with premices of barbs on the side... I think it's fascinating !



2 others, with a slightly darker coloration on the head...



See you tomorrow

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Lovley!

Can't imagine that this little fish is going to be a massive catfish of around 35- 40 cm!




Cristoffer

[husky_jim]

Speechless.......

[ElTofi]

Day 7

the coloration slowly begins, on the top of the head...



the yolk sack is getting a bit thinner, particularly on the caudal fin end, tending to become a body shape...

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Great pics!

How many fry is left? Do you think that the critical stage is over?

Cristoffer

[ElTofi]

difficult to count, cause they hide under the inside filter, but I guess around 45 fry...

in my opinion, they will be OK till the next level... which is, of course, the transition between yolksack and self-feeding... It should be in around 10 days... Wait and see.

[ElTofi]

8th day... in the nursery tank...



and in the floating nursery...




Can you see the differences ? I still don't know if they are caused by the difference of "age" (remember the hatching has happened for 3 days) or for something else, left unexplained yet. All opinions are welcome...

[Haavard Stoere]

I have no theories about the sizes, but both look healthy. Looking forward to see further development over the following weeks

[ElTofi]

Yann (Fulliquet) suggested that it may be an "albinos" (or maybe xanthochromic) question. The question deserves to be asked, no ? Especially with the first picture, of the one in the tank...

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Its possible, but I think they will get more color as they grow... But I would be amazing if you got some xantic or albino variety!

[DutchFry]

I also think coloration will come eventually!

pictures are amazing, lovely little fish!!

for effort and reporting!

[ElTofi]

9th day after hatching of the first youngsters...





everybody begins to take journeys into the wild open of the tank ... at night of course ...

During the day, everybody stays right under the shadow of the filter, all stucked together...