Damaged Giraffe Catfish

[Alan]

Yesterday (Wednesday) when I went to do a weekly water change on my 850 litre tank I noticed the following damage to my Giraffe Catfish:

Dorsal Fin:








(Click image for larger version)

As far as I know, these marks had not been there the previous day (Thursday). Fortunately they seem to look clean. I have not seen him rubbing/flicking or behaving unusually.

Levels (after water change):
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate ~50
pH ~5.5

Just noticed the very low pH, and my dip strip shows a GH of about 140 and KH about 25.

What should I do, and will the fish be OK?

(Just tested tap water to find pH ~5, GH ~140 and KH ~20. It is normally reliably pH7)

[Richard B]

The marks appear behind at least 2 fins? any more? This is something i've seen in fish that have been trapped in pipes etc - could that be an issue?

I'd up the pH & perhaps contact the local water authority to see what's going on. Treating big fish in massive tanks is tricky sometimes as you need large doses of product - melafix would help in this situation

[Alan]

It's behind the dorsal, both pectoral fins and (slightly less) both pelvic fins (one is only very minor). Our water has generally been very steady at pH 7, KH 15, GH 15, so this is very unusual. I consider KH of around 15 to be good, but I've just been told that it should be more in the region of 50-85 to assure a stable tank. Is this correct?

[Birger]

What other fish are in with this one...any large syno's?

Birger

[Alan]

Looks like I need a new test kit! My tap water is pH 7 after all, and my tank is a bit low at pH 6.3, it also suggests that the KH and GH values are probably wrong (took all readings off API 5-in-1 test strips, then confirmed {wrongly} with a liquid pH test). Took some water to my LFS who tested it. I've also got an ammonia reading of 0.5.

What other fish are in with this one...any large syno's?

Birger

I have also one each of the following in the tank:
S. Decora ~8"
S. Pleurops ~ 7"
S. Decorus x Schoutendeni hybrid ~6" (didn't know it was hybrid when I got it, and it has a deformed mouth)
P. Costatus ~4.5"
BGK ~ 14"
All TL.

Strange how the damage is all behind the fins. I wouldn't have thought that would be from synos.

[Richard B]

Maybe not synos? The area behind the pectorals is a big more tender & may be susceptable to ammonia irritation/damage more than other external body areas. Have the fish been flicking or scratching at all?

Personally i haven't encountered aggression issues between auchenoglanis & synodontis - Birger, anything you are aware of

[Alan]

None of the fish in the tank have been flicking at all. It can't have happened from getting stuck in a pipe, as the largest pipe only just fits the Giraffe's snout! We are sure that he didn't have any damage to him definitely on Monday, and 95% certain on Tuesday. Don't know if it's significant, but his faeces have been very sandy over the last 10 days-fortnight. (He regularly filters sand, but it's never reached "the other end" before.) We've had him for 15 months, and he should be about 4.5-5 yrs old. He's 28"TL.

My LFS suggested either pH or ammonia burn, but the values seem to be too small to me, and they came on only the Giraffe, and not my BGK which is supposed to be very delicate.

[Bas Pels]

as all the wounds seem to be placed similarly - on a piece of skin which can be touched by a fin, any chanche cause - such as waterchemistry would seem unlikely to me

I would think of a polishing action by the fin, or a parasite shlielding behind it or something similar

However, I'm unable to go further, sadly

[Birger]

How is this guy doing?

Maybe not synos? The area behind the pectorals is a big more tender & may be susceptable to ammonia irritation/damage more than other external body areas. Have the fish been flicking or scratching at all?

Personally i haven't encountered aggression issues between auchenoglanis & synodontis - Birger, anything you are aware of

Sorry I did not answer right away....when I first looked the wounds kind of looked like typical syno stabs that maybe just got a little more infected and thought maybe a syno was trying to chase it away of a favorite spot if there were maybe not enough getaway areas, but with the amount of wounds it does not really make sense and you would have most likely seen something going on.

Birger

[Alan]

I added some melafix (one bottle is 2 days treatment!) and a very small amount of salt to the tank and he seems to be healing really well. I'll try to get some photos later today.

[Richard B]

I added some melafix (one bottle is 2 days treatment!) and a very small amount of salt to the tank and he seems to be healing really well. I'll try to get some photos later today.

(above) sounds good - perhaps we need to do a bit of root cause analysis though. (to prevent further incidences)

[Alan]

Sorry it's taken so long, but these are the best pics I've managed to get:






The damage behind his dorsal is completely healed, as has the marks behind the pelvic fins, and the rest seem to be well on their way to healing too.

As Richard B suggests, I could still do with finding out what caused it in the first place.

Thanks for all the suggestions and concern so far.

[naturalart]

Very interesting reaction. I thought initially, it may be a result of a bacterial bloom from the substrate. But if its also on the dorsal base that doesn't sound likely. Maybe its just a reaction to a bacterial bloom in the water or a reaction to something internally; say, a new food or something. The sand in the poop could be an attempt to manage the problem. In nature many animals ingest: sand, mud, clay, vegetation, in an attempt to neutralize or flush 'undesirable things ' from their digestive systems. Do you vac your sand?

And another thought just occured to me, I have/had some cats who try to back into a crevice or tube.

[Alan]

Very interesting reaction. I thought initially, it may be a result of a bacterial bloom from the substrate. But if its also on the dorsal base that doesn't sound likely. Maybe its just a reaction to a bacterial bloom in the water or a reaction to something internally; say, a new food or something. The sand in the poop could be an attempt to manage the problem. In nature many animals ingest: sand, mud, clay, vegetation, in an attempt to neutralize or flush 'undesirable things ' from their digestive systems. Do you vac your sand?

I have recently started to feed him on Pond One Koi Sticks, as opposed to Tetra Pond Variety Sticks (plus the usual king/tiger prawns, Scallops and Mediterranean Seafood Mix - Mussels, Shrimp, Squid & Octopus - all frozen, raw, for humans, with no other additives). Every time I change water (7-10 days 120-240 litres) I vacuum the sand and move it back to where I want it. Usually before I've finished adding the new (at tank temp & de-chlor/chloramin-ated) he has moved almost all of it (by sucking it into his mouth and expelling it through his gills) to the point of the tank being bare at one end! He's been rather active yesterday and today, moving a terracotta drainage Y-pipe (12cm/5" diameter, 30cm/1ft long) and banging it on the front glass! So I took it out. Much to the dismay of the S. Decora that was in it at the time!

It looks like the damage was caused by him rubbing sand that he's moved into the water (only abrasive in the tank that he could feasibly use) with all his fins, resulting in the initial damage behind them all. Although this must have happen quite quickly, probably over night.

And another thought just occured to me, I have/had some cats who try to back into a crevice or tube.

None of the pipes are large enough for him to fit in - his tail won't fit, but he does push the end of his snout in to try to get the food I put in for the other fish with a funnel and tube.

[Birger]

It looks like the damage was caused by him rubbing sand that he's moved into the water (only abrasive in the tank that he could feasibly use) with all his fins, resulting in the initial damage behind them all. Although this must have happen quite quickly, probably over night.

I could see this happening on the lower fins, (pectorals,pelvic)but how would the abrasives get behind the dorsal fin enough to cause damage?

Is this the same fish you posted about with the sores on it's mouth back about a year ago, that was a bacterial thing then.

Birger

[Alan]

Is this the same fish you posted about with the sores on it's mouth back about a year ago, that was a bacterial thing then.

Yes it is, and I changed the substrate from wholly gravel to mainly sand with the few bits of gravel you can see in the photos, and that sorted it out, so I'm thinking it was the gravel that caused that.

[naturalart]

So Alan, hows the giraffecat coming along?

[Alan]

Thanks for asking, he seems to have healed quite well. I can't see any marks at all behind his dorsal and pelvic fins, but I can see a mark behind his two pectorals (but they were the worst injuries). I've decided (or was it the wife 'allowing me'?) to change my smaller tank (36" x 15" x 18" LWH) for my old 4ft x 2ft x 2ft tank, which has been sitting empty for 18 months since I got my big tank, and move the synos, BGK and the rest into it, as they were hiding from the giraffe's barging about. This will leave the giraffe on his own, and should result in two happier tanks.

[jprp]

Regarding ph put some coral gravel in your filter to act as a buffer and always run water supply for a minute or so before ph test.
The wounds are very minor and look self inflicted.
this type of injury is often caused when colliding with tank cross straping as a result of panic, poor water conditions or twisting and snatching surface food.

Solutions: dont feed floatiog food
lower water level to leave more space between water surface and strapping
get a big tank at least 8x2x2.


good luck.