Blue Panaque L239 info and breeding?

[Suckermouth]

I was browsing the fish store the other day and found that they had not just one, but two specimens of Blue Panaque (L239?). I'm even more excited because one is obviously bristling with odontodes while the other one is much less hairy. Both specimens are approximately 3.5" in length, so I believe I can eliminate that the non-hairy one is of a different age. Thus, I'm fairly certain that they have a male and a female.

Before purchasing them, I was curious as to the success of getting these fish breed. Considering its often hard to sex fishes I think it's pretty fortuitous to come across a male and a female. Cat-eLog claims breeding unreported but I think its fair to ask and see what kind of set-ups and breeding techniques have been used to attempt to get these fish to spawn.

Also, any specifics on their care would be appreciated.

[Loracidlover]

This fish has been bred several times in Europe, it has also been bred by the aquarium at Basel zoo in Switzerland. www.L-welse.com has several spawning reports, though these are in german, here is a link to a translated page on the fish with some picture of juveniles and fry, also find links to more in-depth breeding reports at the bottom of the page.

http://66.102.9.104/translate_c?hl=en&s ... iU43UTqnOw

Conrad

[Jackster]

I agree that these have been spawned and they are also pretty easy to sex. I had some large males
and they had big reddish colored odontodes and the females were gravid. In the photo below you
can clearly see 2 males and 2 females.

[Suckermouth]

Awesome, I bought the two home. The male is in good condition and the female is a little beat-up, but still I'm pretty happy right now. Now to fatten them up!

[Jackster]

Good luck! I hope they will spawn for you.

[Suckermouth]

Anyone have tips on getting them to eat? They've gone for lettuce so far but they've left zuchinni and algae wafers alone.

[Birger]

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... roduct/254
This link given in a previous post gives some good suggestions, I would try providing frozen foods as a supplement as well, they are not completely wood or vegy eaters...it has also been suggested previously these are very very shy fish
Jackster's fish look to be in great shape so hopefully he will pop in and see this.

[Jools]

I've got some pictures and info to add to the site on spawning these guys, but the contributor wishes to remain anonymous (username only) - so I've not figured out a way to do that.

Jools

[Suckermouth]

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... roduct/254
This link given in a previous post gives some good suggestions, I would try providing frozen foods as a supplement as well, they are not completely wood or vegy eaters...it has also been suggested previously these are very very shy fish
Jackster's fish look to be in great shape so hopefully he will pop in and see this.

Hmmm, thanks, I'll try some frozen food tonight. I wouldn't say my specimens are shyer than usual for a catfish.

[Yann]

Hi!!

Do you happen to speak french as well??
if you do you might want to check things here as well: http://forum.aquagora.fr/les-repros-des-membres/ay/0/

Cheers
Yann

[Suckermouth]

Hmmm, unfortunately I do not speak French.

I am getting worried. I have fed lettuce, zuchinni, algae wafers, frozen brine shrimp, frozen beefheart, frozen bloodworms, and freeze-dried tubifex, none which were accepted by my female. I have even tried purchasing one of those garlic products to soak foods in, but this has not helped. Anyone know what could be up?

[abaigael04]

Have you tried the egg white (I think it is the white?) mixed with some crushed pellets, dried in the sun - all plastered onto a rock that you then drop into the tank?

[Suckermouth]

I tried that yesterday, and did not see a feeding response from her.

[Rohan Richardson]

A suggestion is a divider in the tank reduce the nitrate level via nitrasorb(not via water change) keep the tank DARK and give a variety of easily cleaned foods for a few days as this could be the shy faze! I don't have any experience with these so take what i've written with a grain of salt! Rohan R

[Haavard Stoere]

Canned peas are accepted by both herbivorous and carnivorous plecos. When plecos are introduced to new kinds of food they often only sample some, but get more greedy over time.

How badly starved is the female? Do you have pictures?

[Suckermouth]

It's hard to get a picture that shows her belly being sunken. Also, IMO, L239 do not appear much skinnier from above; it appears their armor holds their shape so that they remain round-ish, which was misleading.

I have had her divided on her own for a while now. Why use nitrasorb instead of a water change? I am unaware of the benefits to this and it seems contradictory to me; I've always assumed that water changes are, in general, good. For one I don't have nitrasorb so a water change is easier. The tank is dark, or at least there is floating water sprite and a new piece of wood I've been floating that's been blocking light, plus the light is at least 10 years old normal flourescent.

The truth is that while I have never seen her eat since I got her, she has been defecating. On the other hand, she has not been noticeably gaining weight. I check often and am perplexed that I haven't seen feeding behavior, and in fact she hardly ever moves from her spot a rock with a hole in it.

Canned peas? Should they be deshelled? I will continue to try the other foods as well so that she may possibly start to eat more.

[Birger]

I tried that yesterday, and did not see a feeding response from her

I imagine you know but the more you watch the less they move
Bloodworms get many a fish on their way as far as eating goes.
I usually shell peas I feed with a squeeze in the water and take the shell out right away,it would not be a problem with your fish but I have a few times seen young ancistrus trapped in a pea shell and cannot get out on their own.

The truth is that while I have never seen her eat since I got her, she has been defecating. On the other hand, she has not been noticeably gaining weight

Maybe there is a problem with some kind of parasite.

I've always assumed that water changes are, in general, good.

It is a rare occasion that a water change is not a good thing...but luckily for me I do not pay for my water

[Haavard Stoere]

For some fish like Hypancistrus sp and Ancistrus sp I crush the peas, and for other fish like Leporacanthicus and Hemiancistrus I let the fish deshell the peas. Fish that are not used to eating peas are more likely to eat from a slightly crushed deshelled pea than a whole one.

About waterchange. I use around 3.000 liters of RO water each week at the moment (simulating rainy season). That totals around 9.000 liters considering the wastewater. And no... I don`t pay for water Waterchange is good, but don`t let the fish get to cold.

[Rohan Richardson]

The reason i put forward no water change is the possibility of bio-flora in the gut similar to nuggets. The nitrasorb simply takes out the nitrite & nitrate plus a smidge of ammonia. With the fish defecating she will have been eating something the trail should tell you what she likes so you can slowly introduce other foods. Rohan R

[inkyjenn]

o man, i had a heck of a time getting my L239 to eat. he got all kinds of hollow bellied. the egg white and food trick worked for me, but if all else fails, have you tried growing some algae on rocks? (im sorry if its arctic where you are; i didnt look first and i live in so. cal. where its sunny and warm most days) also, adding a little fresh squeezed garlic juice to your food/egg mixture might tempt her a bit

[abaigael04]

mine got skinny, too - the egg white and adding garlic to EVERYTHING for awhile was the only thing that worked - bloodworms, veggies, etc were ignored. He eats just about anything I put in there now, though. At first he only ate just enough to live, it seemed - just a little bit gone / you could see it had been touched (he was alone in a Q tank) - but now is pretty greedy, but it took lots of time. I had him in Q for a month- moved him once he started eating reliably, but still had to add garlic to get him to eat. He has been weaned off garlic now, though. Maybe she is just starting to come around to eating and that is why you have not noticed weight gain yet?

Edit: I soaked all food in human garlic - so didn't use the food with garlic added. Don't know if that makes a difference or not.

[inkyjenn]

one other tidbit...my L239 has yet to touch most veggies with the exception of broccoli. he LOVES it. he gnawed a stem that was bigger than he was in about 36 hours down to a .5" nub

[Suckermouth]

I still haven't seen her eat, but I'm more confident that she's been feeding due to her increased defecation. Thanks for all the help, guys!