suspicious BN activity

[andywoolloo]

Well, I'm not sure what's going on but for the last 2 hours that I have seen, they are all either in or on a slate cave in their tank. They never go in their caves ever. Not since I've had them in there. Now tonight I cannot locate the biggest male anywhere and the other 4, 3 girls one boy are all over one cave.

The biggest girl is at the entrance swishing her tail, the little boy is all about trying to get in and she bumps him away, the other two girls are all around and around the cave on the sides and top and trying to get in. It's a regular frenzy of activity.

Do you think the adult male is deep inside? Do you think they knew that today I put the sponge filter around the intake tube? I mean they were checking it out right after it did it this afternoon?

Maybe they are just playing? Where is the big male?

LOL so strange, I love bristlenoses!!

[andywoolloo]

LOL disregard I found the big male, he was not in the cave but on the outside wall inside under the driftwood where I couldn't see him.

Guess they were just playing! But the biggest female is still in there swishing her tail. And the big male is on the left side outside and the small male jamming all over and around the cave but she swishes him away with her tail.

[Barbie]

I'd guess you'll have a spawn in the next week or two. Congratulations!

Barbie

[andywoolloo]

wow...

I mean I knew one day it would happen but...wow..now I am nervous..and excited..

I better get that female betta out of there.

[apistomaster]

BN males will often spawn with consecutive females and that possibility may explain some of the interest the females are all showing in the dominant male. I have had this result in many spawns that numbered 200. 200 fry every few weeks was too much.They were albino normal fin bushy nose. The larvae were removed early and used as good discus food. Population control, my way.

[andywoolloo]

yes, good point, Larry. I will def keep that in mind. 200 fry sounds incredible. 10 would be nice.

Still alot of activity at cave site but I think it's all just dry runs so far. There has been a lot of digging around the cave also. I have never really seen them dig in the sand so much.

[apistomaster]

I gave 6 Normal X albino BN juveniles about 1.25 inches long to a friend and they began spawning at 2-1/2 inches TL about 9 months later and almost 2 years later they have never stopped spawning. I think you will do considerably better than just a few fry; my friend's young breeders never had a spawn of less than 25. His fish are interesting because of their heritage, they produce 25% albinos and 75% Normal color young. He never gave his BN a cave; they just dig their own out from under a rock or piece of wood. They do love to dig as they near spawning. I have one old male in my Heckel discus tank and I later added a few albino and normal juvies about 1.25 long earlier this year. Now that they are nearing their minimum breeding size, my big male has begun digging out a sizable cave under a piece of wood. The amount of sand he's moving is pretty amazing but he is as large a BN as I have ever seen so at nearly 5"TL he's able to move a lot of sand. It is harmless activity except his concept of aquascaping is at odds with mine. I have to remove the extra BN soon before I have a bunch of little ones over running my Heckels' tank.
I propose we rename these fish; "Guppyostmus" in honor and recognition for their ease of and productive breeding proclivities.
I think you will be amazed how many fry a pair will produce and I hope your local shops don't already have another local source. If they don't, you may find your Bushy Nose juveniles may make valuable trading material.

[andywoolloo]

It has been difficult to get bristlenoses around here. Few and far between. And they are such an amazing little pl*co, perfect size and so cute. Eat well, play well, jam all over, very outgoing.

And there is a very nice privately owned fish store that I frequent, he is mostly concentrated on saltwater but he has many freshwater tanks. And in the last two years he has only had one BN that I ever saw there which I promptly bought.

We shall see.

p.s. my little boy BN sure can dig! He is like a bulldozer!! Making big piles. He is just working working.

[andywoolloo]

do I need to remove the female betta? she is the only non BN in that tank?

also, little man is digging a tunnel under the slate cave...and i had to go to work...I hope he is ok and doesn't get hurt!! he is just a teenager i am sure, he is nothing like the big male in there as far as size and bristles. The old man just stays on his side of the slate cave.. on the west wall and the little man is digging west from the east wall... and the 3 girls are circling the cave. in and out and on top and around.

[apistomaster]

Your female Betta may eat or harm some of newly emerged BN fry. They are a bit fragile when they first begin exploring outside their spawning cave. Most of them would probably be fine but it shouldn't be hard to isolate or otherwise remove just one Betta to be perfectly safe.
I just had a pair of Long fin albino Bushy nose spawn in a 29H I keep a prospective breeding pair of Panaque sp L204, Yellow Shrimp and Chinese Zebra Shrimp and these LF BN fry have only been out a 5 days. I thought the big Panaque L204 might be a problem but they have ignored the little white fry. These are the first BN I have decided to raise in a couple years. Long fin albinos are still selling for enough to be worth raising a couple broods a year.
In my area, my friend keeps the LFS supplied with the normal and albino short fin BN and in Spokane, 100 miles North of me, Barbie and many of her students are breeding enough BN to keep that area well supplied so I avoid breeding BN, in general.

[andywoolloo]

yeah.. I just like species only tanks, I never intended to make a business of it. I just love to see the way they interact all together, you know? so I guess reproducing is def part of that, but 200 or so fry? That's enough to keep you awake at night!

Too bad they cannot be neutered.

[apistomaster]

Remember, 200 fry was the result of two large adult females spawning consecutively but the production of numerous fry is inevitable if you have a group including both sexes. I can only control unwanted production by avoiding keeping a pair together. I have one bushy nose in all of my tanks to help control algae. I even keep a juvenile in tanks with breeding pairs of discus.
I also have a lot of Sturisoma scattered throughout my tanks except those containing discus. They have shown a propensity towards attacking the discus and eating the protective mucosa off their sides.

[andywoolloo]

Thanks for that Larry. I should do that boys in one and girls in another.

Hey, if they have the cheek growths is that always a boy? Cause I thought I had 2 boys and three girls but one suppossed girl was flaring her cheek,,the o word things..otodotes? So is that boy? Maybe a late bristle developer?

[Birger]

Hey, if they have the cheek growths is that always a boy? Cause I thought I had 2 boys and three girls but one suppossed girl was flaring her cheek,,the o word things..otodotes? So is that boy? Maybe a late bristle developer?

Both sexes have the interopercular spines, which is what I think you are calling the cheek growths...they may have further development in the males
If you look at the pectoral fin spine and even on the body it may look like it has tiny hairs these are the odontodes, you can really see them in picture 9 and 10 of this

Panaque sp(l204)

Birger

[andywoolloo]

oh ok ty Birger. Yes i do mean the cheek spines. She was flaring them at me big time! in and out and stretching them! I was just watching her eat zuchinni!! lol

hairs are the otondodes, cheek spikes are the interopercular spines and they are more pronounced in the males. Got it.

and body hair means a male?

[andywoolloo]

two days after I removed the female betta from the BN tank, a male has a female in his cave, both facing in, him on top of her, unknown how they fit.

she came out and in multiple times, every time she wiggled out he chased her and butted her and she went back in. Finally she left for good and now he is face in, halfway, and moving his fins fan fan fan fan.

Maybe he is just practicing. I gave them mushrooms last night and they loved them.

Also my smallest male has been digging in the sand like crazy, since i got him, he just loved to dig.

[MatsP]

she came out and in multiple times, every time she wiggled out he chased her and butted her and she went back in. Finally she left for good and now he is face in, halfway, and moving his fins fan fan fan fan.

Are you sure there isn't a clutch of eggs in there?

--
Mats

[andywoolloo]

Are you sure there isn't a clutch of eggs in there?

I couldn't see around him, he was blocking the entrance really well. When I get home I will scope it out as much as I can with a flashlight.

The way he was fanning though was very rhythmically, not willy nilly. Like he had a whole pattern going on.

[andywoolloo]

I checked last night after work and no BN's in that cave and no eggs.
They were all on zuchinni slices. This afternoon the two from before are now
by the other cave. going in and out etc.

I think there is a lot of practice going on maybe. Well, it is very fun to watch anyways.

[Birger]

I think there is a lot of practice going on maybe. Well, it is very fun to watch anyways

Sometimes it does take a try or two to get it right

[andywoolloo]

Sometimes it does take a try or two to get it right

Yeah, that's true also. They are so fun to watch!!! my little escavators!!
so far my fav pl*cos are the BN and the commons. I just really enojoy them both.
alot of character and activity, none of them are shy really.

[andywoolloo]

k, i just got home from work and like i do i remove any uneaten food bits or fruit or veg from al tanks with pl*cos right?

Well, in the BN tank, one of the slate caves on the right under driftwood and plants, well the lid was little off kilter so I moved the driftwood and was fixing it. There is a male in the front head in doing the fan thing. Well so I was all well what the heck, instead of just fixing the top straight I lifted it up.

Eggs...lots...orange..... the male was all WTF put the cover back on!!! So I did and put the driftwood back.

Dude!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have first bites hikari and liquidfry food in a tube. But it might be expired I need to check, I feel like I should boil water or do laundry or spring cleaning!!!!!!!!!!! I can leve them in there, right? The 40 gal with the other BN? I mean they can live in there right? EEEKKKKKKK

he won't let them out till they are done right? and after that they eat the egg yolk for a few days right?
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

p.s. also when he lets them go will they be safe from the intake strainer or should i put s sponge on that right now? I had taken off the sponges cause in my L066 tank the sponge had sucked in and was making my filter barely trickle one night when I came home from work, and I had been rinsing them once a week on water change day? So I was scared to leave them on.

[Birger]

I have first bites hikari and liquidfry food in a tube. But it might be expired I need to check,

He he exciting isn't it...They will eat the same as the adults...if they were separated NLS grow works great as well but is not critical.
Zuchini slices work good and it is cute to see a whole bunch of little one on a slice, green beans as well.

he won't let them out till they are done right?

He does all the work...remember as I said before it may take a try or two to get it right...but that said it should work, patience is needed to not lift the cover and continuously check on them.He will let them out on his own time and it is not easy to miss when this happens as they are all over when released.

p.s. also when he lets them go will they be safe from the intake strainer or should i put s sponge on that right now?

You will want to cover the intake as these little guys have a tendency to get everywhere.

Good luck
Birger

[andywoolloo]

ty very much!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not think I have ever seen NLS grow. I have 3 diff NLS foods and I always scope out the new stuff. Is it fry food?

[Birger]

I do not think I have ever seen NLS grow. I have 3 diff NLS foods and I always scope out the new stuff. Is it fry food?

Yes it is.NLS Grow is .5mm sinking pellets and has a higher protein content..some pleco fry seem to really like it.

[andywoolloo]

I will go look for that on days off!

The eggs looked bright orange when I saw them this morning , so does that mean they are hatched and egg sacs cause every egg pic i see just eggs is not as orange as the hatched orange ones?

Interesting all three males are around the cave. The main male head in fanning and the small boy to the left of the cave and the big big male to the left of the cave on the top, fanning also? maybe they are giving him moral support??

ok it is the big ol male in there in the cave now and the younger male out trying to get in and the older big male is way way in no longer half way in fanning he is way in and covering them and fanning. I am so confused , i thought it was the younger male that was the dad, do you think they are taking turns caring for them?

I know it's not the teeny he is way on the other side now. digging a tunnel.

And when I shined a flashlight in they are still eggs. not hatched.

[andywoolloo]

i know the BN are very common and easy to breed and all but it's my first time and I am finding it very curious. Sorry to bore you.

The one male is still in the fanning away, if you peek he goes all the way in and covers them so we have stopped peeking, from the outside, you know, with a flashlight.

Also the other two males in the tank are hovering around the cave, the bigger one to the left and the smaller one to the right on the sand. It's almost like the want him to tag them so they can go in and fan for awhile you know? too bad they do not do that so he can have a rest and eat. he is very dedicated.

k, that's all.

[andywoolloo]

when I came home from the movies he wasn't in the cave, and confirmed two diff males have been fanning the eggs. First time I saw eggs was the middle male the next day was oldest male for two days and then tonight empty cave just eggs with eyeballs.

all adults were feeding and then the middle man swam back in a few minutes after they saw me, and began fanning or trying to cover them like crazy, pushing out some of the fry!

There are now about 5 in the tank, small teeny weeny bodies on top of big yolk sacs. Still more in the cave in the back.

Do I leave them? do i try to put them back in? I do not see how they can even swim with those big yellow balls on the stomachs. I am so confused. I am leaving them be. I mean nothing in there should eat them, BN are not cannibals right?

ok I have been searching and found a Barbie post where she tilted the front of the cave up about an inch so l put a flat rock under the front of the cave and tilted it up. Yeah soon as I was done dad escaped and fled to another part of the tank from the cave. I suck as a BN grammie.

[MatsP]

I have had little to no success trying to put eggs back with dad. Once they are "lost" he doesn't seem to want them back.

--
Mats

[andywoolloo]

well the loose ones are still alive ...I think... and I have tilted the front end of the cave up a bit.. we'll see.