My brindled madtoms

fishlvr · Post by **fishlvr** » 19 Oct 2008, 22:47

I've had these guys since sometime in May or June I believe (can't remember). I love them. They hide most of the time but they come out whenever food goes into the tank. As soon as any edible item hits the water, they come out looking for it. Does anyone know how to tell the sex of these guys outside of breeding season? I'm hoping they turn out to be a pair so I can take a shot at spawning them. FYI these pics were taken in a 2 1/2 gal. photo tank.

fishlvr · Post by **fishlvr** » 19 Oct 2008, 22:48

A couple shots from above.

Richard B · Post by **Richard B** » 19 Oct 2008, 23:15

Nice fish, i wish madtoms were available as an imported species.

fishlvr · Post by **fishlvr** » 19 Oct 2008, 23:34

Thanks. They're fun fish to have.
Aren't a lot of American fish illegal over there due to introduction problems from sunfish and other US natives?

Richard B · Post by **Richard B** » 20 Oct 2008, 17:09

I believe the keeping of them is restricted although licences for these species area possibility, but they are not available anyway afaik - they would be highly sought after if they were due to size (compared with amerius/ictalurus) & colouration/variety of species

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 20 Oct 2008, 18:43

I think madtom catfish would be difficult to sex outside of their breeding season.
If they were all the same age, I think the females would be the larger fish if no other outward signs were there to go on but I'm not 100% certain of that.
Madtoms are very rare in the Columbia River Drainage but they do exist. I have caught them twice in the sloughs of some tributary rivers of the Snake River as a kid and kept them for awhile. I would still like to try them again but I'm afraid I'll have to buy them from a native aquarium fish dealer because they are so hard to find. They were accidentally introduced when Bullheads, Channel and Flathead fry were introduced to this river system in the late 19th Century. Pretty cool Catfish.

If you can catch a few more, 6 total and keep them cool through the winter, I think you would be able to breed them after a few months at >60*F by warming up their water and conditioning them on earth worms, black worms and blood worms. I'd try it in a 40 gal breeder tank and remove all the non-spawning cats if you noticed a female on eggs.

Your Brindled Madtoms are good looking cats. I think the madtoms should be kept by more people so we can learn more about how to breed them. I have found brooding females in sloughs, late June or early July that were very warm, 75*F or more, brooding eggs they laid inside empty beverage cans. Your winters aren't as cold as ours so you might be able to over winter yours outdoors then bring them inside in an unheated tank for spawning.

fishlvr · Post by **fishlvr** » 20 Oct 2008, 22:43

Yeah more people definitely should be keeping these fish. I'm going to get some tadpole, slender, speckled and margined madtoms from nearby river drainages and try to get each species to spawn. I'm a native fish fanatic, but the catfish have always been my favorites. I've just never been able to get any madtoms until recently, so I've been mostly working with sunfish and bullheads. I've got a 30 gallon and a 55 gallon tank and I want to turn both into madtom community tanks. One is going to be a stream tank and the other is going to be a planted slackwater tank for the species that live in slower-flowing streams/ponds (Tadpole, brindled, etc.).

That's pretty much my plan, as far as wintering them outside then bringing them back in. I'm pretty sure I have a sexual pair as there is a difference in the genital papilla similar to the difference between male and female bullheads, but I'm not sure if this applies to madtoms or not. I just need to be sure.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 21 Oct 2008, 17:41

I love these.

IMO Madtoms are the best looking of all the North American catfish and about the only ones suitable for a normal sized home aquarium

unfortunately they're rare as hen's teeth on mainland Europe as well.
I can't remember seeing any for the last 25 years or so and the times I have seen live ones in the flesh I can count on 1 hand with almost all fingers spare in 34 years of fishkeeping.

fishlvr · Post by **fishlvr** » 23 Oct 2008, 02:16

I wish I could ship y'all some.

If it weren't for legalities and shipping costs I would.

Richard B · Post by **Richard B** » 23 Oct 2008, 14:35

fishlvr wrote:I wish I could ship y'all some.

- so do i , very generous of you

I've seen only one species & only once in 30+ years in the UK (tank full though) - back when i was a nipper (& mad keen but not brilliantly knowledgable) in the most unlikely lfs. I bought a single one & the following day it was eaten by a chaca

(Learning the hard way!) I was a bit concerned as i thought there was some toxins distributed by madtoms via the dorsal & pectoral spines but the chaca was fine & lived a long & comfortable life

fishlvr · Post by **fishlvr** » 25 Oct 2008, 01:49

From what I've heard, they do have toxins of somesort in their dorsal and pectoral fin spines. I've even heard of people's fingers swelling from getting finned by them. I've had that happen with yellow bullheads before, and my thumb was throbbing for a day or two.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 27 Oct 2008, 18:50

I heard about Noturus being toxic too, yes

I have no idea if this is true for the entire genus or just certain species, but Noturus are one of the venomenous catfishes

more pix! love to see a sideview of the whole brindled Madtom

Graeme · Post by **Graeme** » 27 Oct 2008, 22:39

Lovely fish!

Richard B · Post by **Richard B** » 28 Oct 2008, 12:56

Yeah - we want MORE PICS

Pleeeeeeassssse!

Post by **Birger** » 28 Oct 2008, 13:24

I have no idea if this is true for the entire genus or just certain species, but Noturus are one of the venomenous catfishes

AFAIK this is true for the whole genus, it is the toxicity and intensity of the pain which varies between the different species

Richard B · Post by **Richard B** » 28 Oct 2008, 13:53

AFAIK this is true for the whole genus, it is the toxicity and intensity of the pain which varies between the different species

Ouch!!!

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 28 Oct 2008, 16:37

My personal sting experiences from a few madtoms were not much different than the stings I have gotten from Corydoras sterbai.
That is to say, it hurts like Hell but the effects are transient.

fishlvr · Post by **fishlvr** » 01 Nov 2008, 05:49

Luckily I haven't been stung by any madtoms yet, and hopefully it will stay that way!!

Well, I've moved them outdoors for a cool down, so I probably won't be able to get any pics, but I may be able to later tomorrow. I'll have to see if I can net 'em out and get them in a photo tank.

L number Banana · Post by **L number Banana** » 01 Mar 2009, 06:41

Hi fishlvr,
Any new news on the Madtoms? I've recently found out that they are in my area as well and I'm trying to learn everything I can about them. Tons of excellent links but personal experience is always better. New pics maybe?

Thanks

Gregg · Post by **Gregg** » 22 May 2017, 16:17

I recently discovered a tadpole madtom in a shopping bag full of silt while fly fishing for carp in a small reservoir. They were introduced with channel catfish years ago and are rarely seen, I knew exactly what I had found, though I have never seen one before.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 26 May 2017, 16:25

Love it when an old post bears new fruit!

Jools

BullFishkeeping · Post by **BullFishkeeping** » 28 May 2017, 01:41

Are these fish available somehow? AFAIK, even catching them is illegal due to their endangered status.

Barrycal · Post by **Barrycal** » 12 Jul 2019, 12:24

Im interested in catching Madtoms around my area, Waxhaw/Charlotte, NC area. I think we have about four species of Madtoms in this area and am curious about techniques used to catch them.I would appreciate any info you fellas have.Thanks,Tim AldridgeSemper fi

YouTube · Post by **bekateen** » 12 Jul 2019, 15:32

Barrycal wrote: ↑12 Jul 2019, 12:24Im interested in catching Madtoms around my area, Waxhaw/Charlotte, NC area. I think we have about four species of Madtoms in this area and am curious about techniques used to catch them.I would appreciate any info you fellas have.Thanks,Tim AldridgeSemper fi

Hi Tim Aldridge,

I'm not sure what the laws are in your area about collecting the madtoms. I recommend you reach out to the North American Native Fishes Association, http://www.nanfa.org/. They may be able to help. I know they sponsor local fish collecting trips. I got a pair of speckled madtoms from a friend who collected with NANFA.

By the way, you're in North Carolina? I thought you were in the United Kingdom. That's what your profile says, anyway.

Cheers, Eric