Tank Cycling (Fishless)

Crissytal · Post by **Crissytal** » 20 Jun 2003, 19:56

My 55-gallon aquarium finally finished cycling. I changed about 75% of the water yesterday. I was afraid to change too much because I disturbed the sand bed quite a bit. I took out most of my live plants (they were not doing well with my lighting conditions) and put in artifical plants. When I got up this moring I had the following readings:
nitrIte: 0ppm
nitrAte: 20-30ppm (a little high I know)
Ammonia: .5-1ppm

After the water change yesterday I added a little more than half dosage, but a little less then the full dosage of ammonia. The article that I was going by said to add the orginial dosage of ammonia, which I thought to be a little much (about 90 drops to get it around 3-5ppm), so I added about 70. I had been adding around 40-60 for half dosage (when the nitrItes spiked, which wasn't enough to have a detectable reading of ammonia). Is having ammonia readings after a water change and cycle normal, or should I be concerned? Also would it be wise to do another water change today to get my nitrAtes down some more, or should I wait until my ammonia drops? My test kit claims up to 40ppm of nitrAtes is safe, but I've read plenty of information that contradicts that. Will this cause a recycle? I was really hoping to be able to transfer my fish from my 10-gal into my 55-gal today, but it doesn't look like I'll be able too

. Any advice will be appreciated Thanks.
Crystal

saylaveev · Post by **saylaveev** » 20 Jun 2003, 20:34

Curious, I haven't done a cycle using ammonia yet, but wondered why you did such a big water change after the tank has finished cycling??

I would think that with all the movement in the tank and water change and plant change, that you've probably just done a mini cycle on the tank.

I could be way off on this. But I would leave the tank alone for a few days and see if it takes care of it by itself.

but that's only my suggestion, as I said, I haven't cycled with ammonia yet, so I could be wrong about what to do.

Crissytal · Post by **Crissytal** » 20 Jun 2003, 21:46

The reason for such a large water change is to dilute the nitrAtes. Cycling with ammonia causes a much larger bacterial growth then just with a few fish. Cycling with ammonia can handle a rather large bioload right off too, from what I've read (from half to all of the fish one plans on having). Before I did the water change my nitrAtes were 200+ ppm. I only took out 4 small plants, that shouldn't have affected anything, but adding the new artifical plants did cause me to have to move the sand around some, but it's not like I took any sand out, which is were all the bacteria is. I don't know if that could have anything to do with it or not. This is my first fishless cycle. I'll check it again tomorrow to see how everything is. Thanks saylaveev.
More suggestions are welcome. Thanks all.
Crystal

Post by **Barbie** » 21 Jun 2003, 15:28

Hi Crystal,

I'm a bit confused, why would the bacteria be mostly in the sand on the bottom of your tank? Bacteria grow on any surface that has oxygenated water passing over it, which is why under gravel filters are such a huge source of biomedia. Your sand substrate will definitely have some bacteria on it, but it won't be the main source of bacteria unless you're using some form of under substrate plate to move water over it constantly.

Something you always want to check for, is how close your tap water parameters match your tank parameters. A shift in pH and/or temperature can shock and kill back some of your bacteria. I'd think in your case, the ammonia levels you're showing are caused by a dieoff of some of the bacteria in your filters due to the reduced levels of food for them, after the big water change.

I've seen day to day results listed from quite a few fishless cycles on tanks and hadn't ever seen one with nitrate readings quite as high as yours. I'd definitely think you were correct when you thought the ammonia dosage might have been too high. You're trying to build a bacteria bed that will keep your reasonable fish level healthy, and there's just no way they'd ever be able to create a nitrate level that high and be healthy.

On a happy note though, you could swish out the filter you have in their other tank today, and it would probably be safe to add the fish again by tomorrow. The addition of a fresh culture of bacteria from another existing tank can usually help stabilize a tank rather quickly.

I forgot to ask, also, how deep is your sand substrate?

Barbie

Crissytal · Post by **Crissytal** » 21 Jun 2003, 23:42

Thanks Barbie. Yes you are right, the bacteria is everywhere, but from what I understand a lot of it is in the substrate. My tap water has the exact parameters as my aquarium water as far as pH goes. I don't have any buffers added to change my pH. I think what went wrong was my water change. The water was much cooler then that already in the aquarium. I don't have any way of warming the water up. I used a newly bought Python, but it will not work with the faucet inside the house, even with using and removing the extra pieces it came with. So I had to hook it up outside :/. With a regular water change 10-25% this probably won't be a problem right? My substrate is not much more then an 1" deep in the deepest areas. It's mostly around a half inch deep. Should I worry about my nitrAtes being around 30-40ppm? I'll try swishing my filter around. I had thought about doing that earlier, but never got around to it. Thanks again.
Crystal

Post by **Barbie** » 22 Jun 2003, 05:21

Hi Crystal,

If you go to your local Home Depot or other hardware store, they can definitely outfit you with an adapter that would allow you to hook the hose fitting for your python to one of the faucets inside your house. Cooling the tank too drastically will cause problems at water change time, IMO. You don't want to change the actual tank temperature by more than 3 or 4 degrees at a time, or you'll risk stressing the fish, or worse yet, an ich outbreak.

Your sand doesn't sound too deep at all, so if it was me, I'd just plan on doing another 20% water change, and then moving the fish. You can also fill a 5 gallon bucket or two up ahead of time and let them warm up in the house. As long as your ammonia levels are down and you aren't showing nitrites, you'd be alright moving the fish into the tank with higher nitrates, as long as you acclimated them slowly, and realize that you need to do a partial water change every few days to get those levels down. If you're refilling with cold tap water, I'd shoot for a 10% change a day, until you get the levels back down. It shouldn't take long, once you are done adding ammonia as an additional food source. Hope that helps,

Barbie