Zebra sexing

[plec0]

Ok I got 2 L-046's need some expert sexing opinions please. 2.89-2.98 inches TL

[Haavard Stoere]

Better images please

[plec0]

***UPDATE*** 8-21-2008

I've been keeping a close eye on my little guys and Ive noticed every couple days the male in a cave sticking out his tail swaying it back and forth, Ive figured the male isnt quite mature enough yet and I heard stories of the Zebras breeding at different sizes and ages. I guess its all up to them and the environment.. I keep them well fed with lots of different frozen foods and pellets.I have caught the female in his cave with him on 4 differnt occasions, but only for about an hour at most, My guess is they are getting into their minds now the idea of spawning . Anybody have anything they would like to add, I am about 95% sure I do in fact have a male and female., they also stay together everywhere in the tank. All I can say is the trouble I go thru and the stress I give myself over changing their water and keeping their tank clean is all worth it , I am in love with these guys and they have a big 29 gallon tank all to theirselves .. (I bet my 134's are very jealous, 6 of them share a 30 gallon breeder )

[Daragh]

Hard to tell from those photos, but I would think they are too young to spawn at that size anyway. Someone else may have more info on breeding size.

Daragh

[Haavard Stoere]

Zebras can mature at even smaller size. Especially females. The male will grow odontodes on the pectoral spine and from the gill area when he gets ready. I would expect this to happen sometime this winter.

When they are ready to spawn it will be quite easy to see the difference between the sexes:


Good luck with them.

[apistomaster]

Hi plecO.
As I explained when I sold you these 2 zebras, they are very young and most likely a male and female.
All you should be doing is to continue to take good care of them, let them mature a little more and not attempt to push them into spawning. They will spawn when they are ready and if indeed, they are a male and female. I am 90% certain that you received a male and female. I just did not guarantee they were a pair.

[plec0]

yes Larry, I know they are young, but I was just giving an update as to what was going on with them, im very excited about having them again I give greath thanks for this opportunity in keeping them maginificent species,. I love them and Ive grown very attached to them already. I do 4 water changes a week at 25-35% and feed them a very big selection of froozen foods and pellets. they are in love with spirulina bits with garlic from kens. also the golden pearls they seem to like it too.Im not in no hurry for breeding just stating what ive been observing over past couple weeks.

[apistomaster]

OK, I just wanted to temper your ambitions a little to concentrate on just letting them mature and spawn when and if they are ready. Some fish expend so much energy on egg production and with the way male Plecos reduce feeding during brood care I know that can prevent some fish from reaching ther full potential size. One sees this frequently with early spawning discus and angelfish pairs.
I know many people are concerned about the well being of each and every captive specimen since unless Brazil relaxes their export rule the fish already in captivity represent the species future as an aquarium fish. I know they mean a great deal to you and you will do your best by them.
Please contact me off-line about our other business when you get the chance as I did reserve what you said you wanted.
Best of luck.

[plec0]

Ok, 2 more guys to sex for me, part of my on going project, i believe these fellas are of age now to be sexed properly. around 28-30 months old.

[Richard B]

Is it my imagination? Is it the angle of the photos? The fish in this last set of photos don't seem to have any noses????? you know the snout where the number "3" is (or letter "E") - any comments on this?

[Haavard Stoere]

Those two are the worst case of stubnose I have ever seen. I hope you didn`t pay much for them.

Sexing them from head/bodyshape is almost impossible. Really good photos of the ventral area might do the trick, but breeding deformed fish is generally frowned upon.

[Dave Rinaldo]

Is it my imagination? Is it the angle of the photos? The fish in this last set of photos don't seem to have any noses????? you know the snout where the number "3" is (or letter "E") - any comments on this?

You can see the 'stub nose' in p l e c O's post here

[plec0]

yes , I was given the snubnoses for helping my buddy sell his entire colony of the 46's I posted in the for sale section, im not selling these guys and ive got them in a tank by themselves, Im hoping they are male and female, based on body size both same age from same spawn and one is alot more bigger than the other, i was hoping tp breed just the two and really see if they produce normal fry or all deformed fry.i wont be selling these or their fry.. the for sale section has 8 listed for sale now.. heres a pic taken thus morning of the 8 thats for sale...

[plec0]

ok SO NOBODY CAN HELP ME SEX THESE 2 snubnose fish?

[MatsP]

The first looks more male than the second, which looks like it COULD be female. But neither fish are showing high level so sexual dimorphism. Could be due to diet/condition or age.

But I do hope that you are not planning to use these fish for breeding purposes, as the snub-nose is most likely heredetary.

--
Mats

[drpleco]

Life sure seemed better when garbage topics like this were left to plecofanatics. Too bad you were banned there, boot.

My vote is to put them in seperate tanks so they cannot breed, thus making sexing irrelevant. That'd be the responsible thing to do, anyway.

[andywoolloo]

ok SO NOBODY CAN HELP ME SEX THESE 2 snubnose fish?

I am surprised anyone answered you. you shouldn't yell at people and be impatient. And why do you want them sexed, everyone said not to breed them.

[plec0]

u guessed it right. they are in a tank all by thrmsevles.. thats WHY i was hoping they were a male/female.. based on the pectoral fins hair growth Im positive one is male, other hair growth on the pectoral fin is very short and not as hairy assuming its either a female or young male, but both these fish are almost 3 inch TL. Im not mixing these guys with my Normal 46's was not intending to do so. The harsh comments and THIS ISNT NO B/S TOPIC. Its trash cause im asking a question? Who re u to say who is trash dr gold. if u dont like my topics dont read them, free world, i can breed snubnoses with regular noses if i want to. Im not so dont criticize me asking for sex of these fish. I dont see you over in PF yelling at Imer for cross breeding 236's and 46's. Now story told. I will hopefuly have a pair out of these 2 if not, I got access to 5 more to SEE IF ITS TRUE OR NOT SNUBNOSE MAKE normal fry or not. THANKS AND HAPPY reading.

[drpleco]

I'll write one post on this and quit - based on your past behavior and posts, anything more is, frankly, beneath me or anyone else here. But my rationale is this: I don't believe you can be trusted to be responsible with these fish and not screw things up for the rest of us. Say you actually succeed and get a batch of snubnosed fry...what will you do with them? Just grow them out and keep them for the rest of their lives? Euthanize them? My money is on you distributing them, likely for money. I'm basing this on the lack of any observable altruism on your part in any posts that I've read, or any private dealings I've heard about from others. Now say you get normal nosed fry...what then? Will you keep those forever and not unleash their faulty genes into the collective pool? Responsibly euthanize them and the parents and call an end to the experiment? Again, past behavior suggests that you won't.

Maybe I'm wrong about this- I guess it doesn't really matter. You're going to do what you're going to do and not respond to contrary logic anyway. However, maybe this would be a nice opportunity to make that first altruistic act and put these fish in seperate tanks from eachother and drop the whole thing. Or, hand them off to someone who will responsibly perform the experiment, write up the results, and then humanely euthanize all of the animals involved to prevent the spread of their genes.

Again, I won't respond to further argument, nor will I refine mine. I anticipate your trademark vulgar and indignant response as evidence to support my position.

Andy

[plec0]

well Andy, you have hurt my feelings, I have currently 4 tanks set up now 20 long breeders ... all with zebras and the 2 snubnose are going into an even bigger tank if believed to me male and female.. most likely the end result is 2 males.. either way I took the fish in fact I didnt want them to be mixed into a normal gene pool and further damage any bloodlines down the road. I love these species and dedicate to find if its fact or fiction snubnose are based on envrionment or genetics.. If i do successfully have a spawn from them, I will not distribute them. I have plenty of regular bloodline zebras that can breed for me, matter of fact I have no intentions of selling any of my fish even if I do accumalate 100+ fry. I just for sake of boredom wanna do something good and find out whats the whole controversy behind this bulldog trait is true or not.. These fish will not be sold or given out like candy. Im sorry if i piss people off and have a short fuse. But Im not cruel and intentionally gonna breed these fish for THE MONEY. Now you can think of more reasons for me to kill these fish but isnt that cruel? Do you want your kid locked away and tortured or put to sleep cause he has a disease or isn't normal like rest of kids in the world? You out of anybody here who loves fish are being a bit hypocritcal when you say kill these fish they have no meaning to life. YES THEY DO just like you and me. So you go kill your fish and mind your business, if all you can do is tell others what to do with their fish. now if any part of this reply is ignorant or of no importance to you then disregard and dont post no reply, hope it hits your heart and make u think twice about killing an innocent little endangered fish..

[Bas Pels]

Im sorry if i piss people off and have a short fuse.

Reading this topic, I think this is true

Unfortunately, because as this is an international forum, everyone should both: try not to offend AND try not to be offended

Because, what is a very decent way to answer for me, might in fact be offensive in, say, the UK

so, somebody reading such an answer in the UK best tries to think - it might be intended nicely (but failed)

So, Plec0, please try to adapt to the customs on this forum

[plec0]

Got a chance to buy these at a very nice price.. Curious if any of you guys can possibly sex these, seller claims they are 3M/3F but not 100% positive on sex ratio. He just knows theres a guranteed female in the mix. but heck with 6 fish Id bet there was atleast 1 female.. anybody else have any clue at the sexes of these and based off these pics know about what size range these guys might be ?THANKS IN ADVANCE