Considerig to buy Pseudacanthicus sp. L25

[Haavard Stoere]

Hi
Sometime this autumn/winter I would like to aquire a group of Pseudacanthicus sp. L25

Looking at the import list of a norwegian store I see there are two kinds of L25:
São felix red and ultra scarlet. These names tells me nothing

I want the ones that looks like these:http://planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopi ... =5&t=23770

[ElTofi]

Hi Haavard,

my Pseuda are the Pseudacanthicus sp "scarlet" L25 from the Rio Xingu, around Altamira. As you know, every fish collected in this area transits by Altamira, so the exact locality is not very often known...

Mine come from Glaser in Germany. I know they still have a few individuals in there...

In any case, you can probably check the origin with your local dealer, no ? In my case, when I pay such a crazy price for a fish, I want to see it before, at least a picture of it. As you want to have a group, I'm sure your dealer will find a "win-win" solution to check the ID of your future fishes...

"Sao Felix do Xingu" is a micro-area in state Parà along the Xingu of course... It's not far away from the "collecting area" of L25 (see next answer), but quiet far in the South... The only "ultrascarlet" I saw by my usual dealer is this one :



which seems to be a Pseuda L186...

but that's the problem with "commercial" names... I'd be glad to have news about it

Tofi

PS : I'll make a check (on location) in my Wels Atlas II this evening... I will edit if necessary

[ElTofi]

hi again,

in the Wels Atlas vol. II, Pseuda L25 is described as a fish coming from Rio Xingu "between BeloMonte (Cachoeira Grande do Iriri) and the half way up of the river, in the area of Sao Felix do Xingu". It's said that this fish can be found in Rio Iriri too, as far as "6 hours boat from the junction Iriri - Xingu".

Another information is that these fishes are mostly collected by "Ilha do Fazenda", a big island between BeloMonte and Altamira. It's supposed to be the most "efficient" place to capture L25. They live on rocky grounds, where adults are taken till 7 meters deep. Juveniles are to be caught much deeper (around 20 m)...

that's all I can do for you yet... maybe we'll be able to exchange feed-back about our "Red Fins Devils" in a few months...

[Haavard Stoere]

Thank you for a very good answer to my question

So Sao felix is the southern form of L25, and the picture above is probably wrong anyway? I think I will go for the normal scarlet, and try to get pictures before I order/purchase.
You have very nice L25s Good luck with them

[Haavard Stoere]

Today I talked to my LFS again, and they will make enquiries to hopefully get me a rather large group of young L025s. Just hope it is not to late considering the new enforcement on export laws.

I wonder about the aggressiveness of these fish. Are they as bad as L. triactis? The aggression in itself is immaterial, but I wonder if they inflict heavy damage to each other on a regular basis.

[ElTofi]

Today I talked to my LFS again, and they will make enquiries to hopefully get me a rather large group of young L025s. Just hope it is not to late considering the new enforcement on export laws. I wonder about the aggressiveness of these fish. Are they as bad as L. triactis? The aggression in itself is immaterial, but I wonder if they inflict heavy damage to each other on a regular basis.

Difficult, but not too late... my French friend will receive a full box (10 pieces) of L25 within the next few weeks... coming directly from Altamira... it seems that several farms still have "stocks" (of course , I'm not that naively) which are allowed to be exported, as they already were in the exploitation...

Considering the aggressiveness, I know that Pseuda are supposed to be very rough... but I guess it's all about space and territories... cause mine are very smooth actually... of course, when they want to catch a shrimp, nobody in the tank would dare to compete with them... but I never saw any wounds on other fishes, neither on the Pseuda.

I think there's a question of period too. I remember the L114 I kept in the same tank during a few months... At the beginning, they had exactly the same behaviour than the L25 have now... And suddenly, after maybe 4-5 months,I had to separate them (what a fool I've been)... Lately, I discovered that this very aggressive behaviour was a pre-nuptial behaviour (the alpha male biting the female on the dorsal fin, leading her to a cave by force)... But at that time (early 2006) I didn't know anything about this kind of behaviour and I've been stupid enough to sell my 3 adult and mature individuals to avoid they got hurt...

[Borbi]

Hi,

I can only share a friend´s experience:

he tried to combine two L 25 (one freshly imported) in a 2m, well structured tank. The second one was less than 5 minutes in there, when they found each other. The man wasn´t able to seperate those two, and the weaker one was dead after 10 minutes.

Of course, it not necessarily happens, but there can be a lot of aggression in L 25, especially among males (and I´m still waiting to see a single female).
What I believe is the crucial point: in my example, one of the fish already had a territory set up and the other one was an intruder. For Tofi, it was different because all fish entered the tank at the same time and could set up their ranks starting from equal grounds. That´s a point I´ve seen often in Pseudacanthicus spp.: if you want to introduce a new specimen, completely redecorate the tank. Then, it´s "new" for all of them and the new one is bullied around less, because there are no established territories.
However, with the mean L 25 (also L 24) I would only combine them with a lot of free time to watch them carefully in the first days.

Cheers, Sandor

[Bas Pels]

Being a cichlid keeper, I'm a bit amazed by Sandors' friend his experiences

in cichlid keeping, we know NOT to introduce fish into an established tank. Territories need to be destroyed, decoration needs not only to be moved, but to be replaced by other and so on

Completely undecorating a tank for a day or 2 is also used sometimes

I understand Pseudoanthicus are as agressive as many cichlids, which was perhaps unknown at that time, but they should be treated egally. Therefore I would suggest reading something about keeping Cichlidae - and never mind the for plecos not usable details

[Borbi]

Hi Bas,

..well, now my friend knows, as well.. Back then, he believed that this tank should provide enough shelter and structure for both fish. It appears, however, that they somewhat intentionally seek each other to fight..

Cheers, Sandor

[soltarii007]

Well hi

I have three 4-5" L25s, one 2" L64, one 2" L114, one 5" L113, one 8" Megalancistrus cf. barrae, one 6" Acanthicus Adonis albino and one 4" L91 Dragon Fin, all in the same 4' tank with a 7" L128 and 5" L200high fin. I find that as long as the pleco is aggressive, putting many together is better than just 2, because the aggression is spread out.

[Janne]

Today I talked to my LFS again, and they will make enquiries to hopefully get me a rather large group of young L025s. Just hope it is not to late considering the new enforcement on export laws.

Difficult, but not too late... my French friend will receive a full box (10 pieces) of L25 within the next few weeks... coming directly from Altamira... it seems that several farms still have "stocks" (of course , I'm not that naively) which are allowed to be exported, as they already were in the exploitation...

They are not allowed to be exported either they already was in the exporters facility or not, maybe they could ship their last early this year around february-march but not today...I am not naive either and understand a few exporters take some risk's to earn a couple of hundred $.

To the other question about the colour differencies in L25, the red fins is caught around Sao Felix do Xingu and the orange fins are caught between Altamira and Belo Monte, most exporters have shipped them as one "species".

Janne

[Haavard Stoere]

Maybee it is to late. I will let you know sometime next week.