bubble belly abn

[Breezer]

Hiya guys,

Here's the history.
ABN fry about 1.5 to 2cm TL.
Moved to a growout tank with other abn about 3 weeks ago.
Just over a week ago, noticed one with a what appears to be a huge blister on his belly. Literally his whole belly is one huge blister with red patches where the blister seems to join back to the body. It pushes the tail up in the air while they are feeding on the bottom of the tank.

abn bubble belly

We moved him to a QT tank after noticing this and not being sure what to treat with have been treating with pimafix and melafix. My thoughts were it was gas bubble disease, but was not sure as the previous water change to that tank was 2 weeks prior, and the water change that day was after i noticed the abn.

About 3 days ago, while doing my usual inspection of the fish, noticed that they had whitespot in the tank. So we have been treating with a whitespot remover at halfdose.

Today when i've just been out to check, i have found another 20 or so fry from the same batch that have the bubble belly.
They have not had a water change since the day we noticed the first fry with it.
Parameters are
pH 7
slight ammonia, nitrates and nitrites ( the tank is 4ft with about 100 abn fry (from 1cm up to 4cm) and 10 whiptails (6-7cm). Runs off multiple sponge filters with power heads attached.
temp is not as stable as i would like, it's the middle of winter and while i have the aircon on heat 24/7 in the fishroom, this tank is at the far end and most affected overnight when the temp drops outside. It usually sits on 23oC.

So question is does anyone know what is causing this?
Is it gasbubble disease? and if it is, i thought this was mainly brought on by cold water changes? but there have been no WC's in the week prior to noticing these fish.
What would be the best med to treat with?
I'm assuming the redness at certain patches where it joins the body are some type of bacterial infection, but i am limited at the moment to meds.
Can i use the other meds while still treating for whitespot? most of the fry in the tank have it and don't seem to be getting any better.
I should know the whitespot info, but it's my first ever outbreak of it and as much i've researched meds and stuff i just can't seem to think what would be best.

any help is appreciated.
Bianca

[MatsP]

"slighg ammonia" is a worry - a 4ft tank with adequate filtration should be able to hold 100 bristlenose fry, so I guess you've someohow lost your beneficial bacteria in some way.

Large and frequent water changes to manage the ammonia/nitrite levels to as low as possible. Replenish the medication as you change water.

--
Mats

[Breezer]

Thanks mats. Yeah i guess something has gone wrong somewhere along the lines there with the ammonia. It is only just reading on the first marker that's how slight it is, but i guess it still means there is some there.

Do you have any suggestions on causes of the belly blisters/bubbles?
And meds to use? The tank currently has some whitespot remedy (at the half dose) and some pimafix and melafix as that is all that i have on hand at the moment. I can get other meds tomorrow if need be, but am not sure what to use. We have been treating the single one with the mela and pima for over a week with no change.

[MatsP]

Sorry, I have no idea on the "bubble belly" problem - I have never seen that particular problem. I'm inclined to think that it's a diet problem [too much protein and not enough fibre, perhaps], but I could well be wrong.

--
Mats

[Breezer]

Ok thanks anyway.

They get the same diet as all our plecs. Algae discs, zuchini, pumpkin and sweet potato. We try and rotate between those 4 as much as possible. The get about once every 2 weeks a piece of lettuce leaf as well.
It's just odd, we've never had this prob with any other fish or fry and all of a sudden we have a heap with it. I've got no idea.

[MatsP]

That diet sounds good to me. So it's probably something else - or a combination of different things working together of course.

--
Mats

[husky_jim]

I have seen the same in zebra fry in an old (probably 2 year old) post in ZebraPleco.com I will try to find it and post it here....

I really don't remember what had happened back then...

[Barbie]

I had it in L260 a time or two when I was first starting to raise them. I finally thought I narrowed it down to a developmental problem when the fish were restricted oxygen level at some point in their development. I use a different sort of hatchery container now that the water consistently flows through and I haven't had any more of them.

I never saved any that did that. Hopefully you'll have better luck with it than I did. I would definitely recommend more water changes, no matter what the bottles of meds say or don't say to do. It surely won't hurt and it can make all the difference in the world with little babies, IME.

Barbie

[Mike_Noren]

Mysterious translucent blisters have been reported from several other catfish, e.g. Corydoras. To the best of my knowledge no-one has ever been able to determine what causes the blisters, but pictures & an account of a successful treatment can be found in this thread:

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =6&t=16975

EDIT: I've seen other corydoras with similar blisters on their sides and back, but can't find pictures now.

[Breezer]

Thanks guys, it's been really helpful. That link you posted mike has some good advice in it so i'll move the affected ones to another tank and follow the treatment from that thread and see what happens.

finally thought I narrowed it down to a developmental problem when the fish were restricted oxygen level at some point in their development

This actually stands out to me. This particular batch of fry were kicked out of the cave when they were 1day old eggs. We tumbled them ourselves in our homemade tumbler (so maybe that had something to do with it). They could've been sitting outside the cave for up to 12hrs before we realised. They were in there but near the end at the usual 9pm feed, and when we done the morning feed at 9am they were already out.

So thanks again guys. Will keep you updated.

[Breezer]

Well it's time to update you all.

As it turned out all of the abn infected with "bubble belly" ended up being from the same batch of fry (the batch that we tumbled).
Now, we've had over 30 die, and the other 15 or so that are left are showing the bubble belly. So i don't hold much hope for them.
None of the other fish (other abn fry and the whiptails) that were in the original tank are showing signs.