New RIO 300 tank

[slakey]

Hmm, I've had my C. trilineatus since my 125 was set up and got the rams a little bit after them and the temp is 26C atm.

Yeah kuhli's are lil buggers to find, but my two came out today around the two anubias'

Also the fish man at the garden center said the more you keep the more they become active and come out of hiding...

oooo damn, I forgot to tell you about a fish I saw at Swallow Aquatics damn!

looks like a glass catfish but its not called that. erm...

[slakey]

New fishies on the block.

3 Otto's
1 Red Tailed Black Shark

Also I have this brown algae over my wood, and it sometimes clings on and looks like brown cobwebs, will the otto's clear that up or should I take out and scrub myself?

[MatsP]

I'd think that the Oto's will eat brown algae.

--
Mats

[slakey]

Since getting the new fish, I have noticed the smaller of my 2 three-lined corydoras has got a white bit on the end of his nose (scales missing) and also some mornings I find him/her on the sand bellyside up, I tap the glass and he/she flips back over.

Now I'm guessing he/she is on the way out, and won't be there for much longer.
I highly doubt it's the Otto's and suspect the Red Tailed Black Shark.

Other fish in tank:
Guppies (I know the RTB will go for these)
1 Zebra Danio
2 Three Lined Corydoras
1 Black Peru Corydoras
2 Kuhli Loach
3 Otto's

The lady didn't mention anything about RTB's going for Corys and didn't expect myself in all fairness.
But if they do then that's my fault, and at sometime will probably lose all 3 of them.

Any suggestions for catfish that won't be bothered by my RTB? Syno?

[MatsP]

I think Red Tailed Black Sharks are pretty agressive towards other fish in general, and whilst they look stunning, are not really that great in a community tank. I have no personal experience with these fish (because I don't trust them with any of the fish I've got... That's not to say that I haven't made similar mistakes in the past with other species of fish - I bought some form of Tanganyikan cichlid many years ago, and it was VERY agressive towards ANYTHING in the tank - managed to find someone who wanted to take it on, so I didn't loose too many fish... )

--
Mats

[slakey]

Well I know that Syno's can go in with Malawi Cichlids and other kind of medium-sized Cichlids, so I'm guessing 3 would be able to handle a single RTBS.

Or should I just get a largish group of three-lined corydoras?

Or any other suggestions?

By the way I will be getting rid of the guppies at some point, and be buying 4-8 Green Tiger Barbs

[Richard B]

Tiger barbs might not be a wise choice as they are prone to nip at other fishes fins - corys would be a likely target

[MatsP]

I'd be voting for "a large group of corys". Tiger Barbs, as Richard says, are nippy - it's part of their natural defense.

--
Mats

[Richard B]

If you want some "midwater movers", how about a shoal of danios, there are some unusual ones appearing in shops at the moment - check http://www.danios.info/

[slakey]

How many corys should I buy?
Should I add an extra 8-9 to have 10? or maximum of 6-7?

I don't like danios

[MatsP]

As many as you like really - you could certainly have a couple of dozen corys in your tank as long as you don't have many large fish in the tank. I can't remember the whole stock-list of your tank, but i don't think it's anywhere near fully stocked.

--
Mats

[slakey]

The stocking as it currently stands:

2 Kuhli Loach
10 Guppies
1 Red-Tailed Black Shark
1 Zebra Danio
2 Three-Line Corydoras
1 Black Peru Corydoras
3 Otto's

But guppies trying to find a new home and well one of the corydoras is dying as I've said.

So I'd think a 9 more three-lines would be nice
and maybe 4 black peru's if I can afford them?

But hold that throught ^

As I've come across some mid-dwellers.... Silver Dollar and Firemouth Cichlid.
That ^ is not certain yet as I'm still looking for other fish and I'm not sure whether the firemouth or silver dollar will be advisable for the RTBS and my other fish.

So suggestions are highly welcome.
P.S I don't like danios much.

[MatsP]

Silver dollars are nice, but eat plants and grow failry bulky (not so long, but they do get fairly tall large for their length), so will add a lot ot the bioload.

The firemouth is a central american species, so will prefer harder water than the Silver dollar that is a Amazon basin species.

--
Mats

[slakey]

So would either of those fish be ok with the RTBS and the smaller fish of my tank like kuhli loaches and corys?

I'm still open to suggestions. I really like the Denisonii Barb but they grow long and don't look good in small numbers

If I were to get those barb I'd want atleast 7, and that's just not possible for my tank size.

I'm slightly interested in Rainbow Fish. And I still like gold severums and also these eel's I've seen at the shop I got my shark from, forgot what they're called but they grow to I think it said 16".

[MatsP]

Unfortunateley, with only one (large) tank, you'd be limited to whatever you choose as your "main fish". I can't really tell you which you should get or which would work better or worse with the red-tailed shark.

--
Mats

[slakey]

Oh it's so hard to choose.

I think I'll leave the shoal of Denisonii Barb for another time, when I have no fish stock and can re-scape to their needs.

Thing is I want something big enough to be the main fish either in size or numbers or both, and also big enough to keep the RTBS in check but not too big to eat my corys or kuhli loaches.

Shoal of figure 8 puffers, or something similar? Or would they be overly aggressive to the corys?

I need to find someone with much experience with RTBS's

Time for a google search for forums.

[racoll]

Sounds like you haven't made your mind up yet....

Nothing wrong with that at all, but please don't rush into buying anything until you are sure it is what you want.

We've all done it, and but your tank will so much better with more time and thought at this crucial stage.

You seem dead set on the kuhli loaches and the Corydoras. If I were you, I would avoid large boisterous or destructive fishes like "sharks", silver dollars and central American cichlids. This combination will not be optimum for the quiet and peaceful kuhlis and Corydoras.

I would go for a large shoal of a small-medium sized barb, rasbora, rainbowfish or danio.

I can't stress enough how much more effective and professional looking a display looks with a large shoal of just one or two species. Mixing them up rarely looks any good.

Here are a few ideas.... If you still don't like danios after looking at some of these stunners, there must be something wrong with you

Rasbora caudimaculata



Feather-fin rainbowIriatherina werneri


Odessa barb Puntius padamya


"Cummings' barb" Puntius reval


Five-banded barb Puntius pentazona


Devario sondhii


Devario maetaengensis


Devario chrysotaeniatus


Danio choprai



Danio kyathit

[slakey]

Well I had the Kuhli's and Corys before the Shark came and the lady didn't mention any problems, so both my and her fault.

The Odessa and Five Banded Barbs are nice, but I'm still not fond of Danio's, they're nice looking and all that, just not my kind of fish :/

Also another fish I've looked at is the Butterfly Fish.
Or should I try a pair of Kribs or Rams?

My last pair of Rams didn't hassle my 3 corys.

Still open to suggestions people, don't be afraid to give some.

[racoll]

but I'm still not fond of Danio's, they're nice looking and all that, just not my kind of fish :/

Fair enough. Can't say I didn't try.

Well I had the Kuhli's and Corys before the Shark came and the lady didn't mention any problems, so both my and her fault.

It might work out fine, but a general rule of thumb I have is that unless you know otherwise, small quiet fish should only be kept with other small quiet fish.

Also another fish I've looked at is the Butterfly Fish

Butterfly fish (Pantodon buchholzi, is that what you mean below?) are a nice fish. Easy to keep, but they have a huge mouth, so you won't be able to stock anything under about 3cm.

Pantodon buchholzi


Rams I would avoid. They need really warm water to thrive (30C+). Your Corydoras will not like that kind of temperature. They are also of very dubious quality these days - they only seem to last a month or two at best. I wouldn't touch them unless I bought wild-caught stock and had a dedicated set-up.

Kribs are cool, a much better choice. They are peaceful, except when they breed - mine took up four feet of a five-foot tank!

How about keyhole cichlids? These are the most peaceful cichlid ever, and rather nice looking.

[slakey]

Hmm just a thought on Butterfly's.

I kept my Rams in with my corys for about half a year

Yeah I like the Keyhole Cichlids aswell.
I have considered Angelfish but think it'd be the wrong choice.

[racoll]

I kept my Rams in with my corys for about half a year

Better than most people, but they should live longer than that.

I have considered Angelfish but think it'd be the wrong choice.

Angels would work fine as they are quite gentle and peaceful. Wild-caught fish would need warmer temperatures, but I imagine you would buy farmed fish which will be fine a bit cooler I think.

First of all though, I would get more Otocinclus, Corydoras (of both species) and Kuhli loaches. This should be your first priority as they are all gregarious fish that need company of their own kind. You have a pretty big tank and should aim for at least 8 individuals of the above species (even more for the kuhlis!).

I would also drop your water temp down to 23/24C as this will be preferred by these fish.

Personally I do not like to have a "compromise tank" with different kinds of fish living at the edges of their environmental tolerances. Having cooler water will also make your search for other tank-mates easier.....

[slakey]

I've got some news.

Got home from work checked the tank, to see how the Cory was doing and found my RTBS belly-side up against the filter :/

I said to my dad if he/she dies withing a few days I'll be really annoyed, and he/she did.

But my Otto's are doing fine, happily swimming around cleaning. Got them the same day as the RTBS, so maybe stress killed the RTBS, or maybe I was given a weak one?

Bad thing to say, but atleast now I don't have to worry about what to mix with him and can go for the more peaceful tank

I'm deffinately getting more Three-Line Corydoras 9 more infact. The one that's dying is a male I think as it's much smaller then the other which is fairly fat so I'm guessing that's a female.

Also the one that's dying I think it's got a swimbladder problem... can't stay up right on the substrate or while swimming... any treatment for this or is it a slow death type disease?

Black Peru Cory's I shall try my hardest to pull money together for them, but I have been on the waiting list for about nearly 6months now, ever since I got my rio300, and the LFS hasn't had them in, also they go at £8 each.

Kuhli's I'd love some more Kuhli Loaches and I'm sure my dad would *his fav fish* I'd be happy to have 12 if need be, they have been coming out around the Anubias just the two of them so another 10 will increase that to more times

Now back to peaceful fish thinking.

But I think I shall check my water rates, as last time I checked them before I got the new fish my Nitrite was 0.25 and everything else 0.

So shall doing a 50%? water change tomorrow maybe get some more plants aswell to keep the levels low, and erm is it worth it gettting a CO2 system? Something simple and not expenssive.

I mean my plants seem fine but some are dying/rotting a tiny bit.

So sorry about this long post, but it's best way to find out things.

[racoll]

Got home from work checked the tank, to see how the Cory was doing and found my RTBS belly-side up against the filter

Having hardy fish like sharks dying, is not a good sign. Are there any symptoms?

A 50% water change is always a good idea. Do test your water again before the water change. Make sure you are not overfeeding.

So shall doing a 50%? water change tomorrow maybe get some more plants aswell to keep the levels low, and erm is it worth it gettting a CO2 system? Something simple and not expenssive.

I mean my plants seem fine but some are dying/rotting a tiny bit.

Plants are much harder to keep than fish, and your choices are very limited in a tank with standard lighting, heavy aeration and no CO2. Only a pressurised CO2 unit will work in a tank your size. A yeast system with do practically nothing. Essentially you are limited to the plants i recommended earlier in the thread (below) plus perhaps Vallis and Cryptocoryne wendtii. The plants that are now dying throw away, and the plants that are growing, buy more of!

However, you can maintain a very nice unrooted planted tank with ~1cm of sand (good for catfish) and use rhizome plants like java fern (Microsorium pteropus) and Anubias spp. on your wood/rocks, along with some floating species like pennywort (Hydrocotyle ranunculoides), hornwort (Ceratophyllum demersum) and Amazon frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum). These are all dead easy species to grow with no nutritious substrate, standard lighting and no CO2 required.

[slakey]

All my pleco's have died, every single one, from the 125. Haven't tried one in the 300.

I've kept all fish in there except the kuhlis and the ottos for roughly a year now.

So erm yeah before I do water change I'll check rates and write them down and on saturday night before i turn lights out I'll check them too?

[racoll]

All my pl*co's have died, every single one, from the 125. Haven't tried one in the 300.

I don't really know what you could be doing wrong. You seem to know all the basics, you have suitable equipment, and you change the water regularly.

Perhaps you are overfeeding? Its very difficult to tell you how much to feed, but this is a very frequent cause of fish death..

A good rule is to make sure the fishes consume everything within 5 mins, but then making sure some is left for noctural feeders is tricky.

Something to think about though....

[slakey]

I do about 1-2 pinches which is roughly 10 flakes give or take a few, then a 1-2 pinches of Catfish Pellets aswell.

It's all clean by the morning so is that right?

I am tempted to buy a mature pleco but they're hard to find, all the ones that have died, have been babies like tiny babies, bout the length of my corys and one time smaller. So maybe they can't cope with what my water was like?

I'd give a pleco a try in my Rio300 but they're not the cheapest fish for the babies, so it's 50/50. I'd like to buy a mature one, but then the only thing that troubles me is, where do I put it if it does die after a few days?

[slakey]

Right I have got some news, my Garden Centre rang me and left a message on my home phone telling me that they have some three-line corydoras in stock at £5.99 each or 3 for £15, good prices or are they taking the piss?

Also should I do a water change before buying some and if I done a water change now would it be advisable to get them today or tomorrow?

[MatsP]

Price of fish is not easy to say. I got some C. metae in decent size for 5.95 at Wildwoods, and I'm sure the "C. julii" which are in fact "C. trilineatus" are sold for about £3 at my local shop. But size, condition and availability locally affect prices, so comparing such things is very difficult.

--
Mats

[Richard B]

Any fish is only worth what someone will actually pay for it! (i wouldn't pay 10p for a RTC but people do buy them, sometimes for 3 figures)

If they are good size, good condition corys then it's probably not a bad price. I saw a trio of small C "Fumassa" (aerio) for £125.00 last week!!!!! Weitzmanni go for upwards of £20 each regulalrly.....

[slakey]

Should I go buy some now, if I have the money?