Wood problem.

[Violence]

I wanted to add wood to my 55 gallon aquarium. I went to he river and got a few branches (I only found two),and later my janitor told me he cut a tree in pieces a year ago and it's in the yard, so I went to get the wood.

I treated the branches with a bleach solution for about 8 hours, then when it was done I peeled off the skin and bark (which became tender), I scrubbed it with metallic brushes, I boiled them for 4 hours, then I put them back in the bleach solution over night, the next day I rinsed them, I scrubbed them and used some sand paper to make it smooth. When that was done I put them in the over on 150 degrees Celsius for about two three hours AND boiled them one last time, the water was clear. So my wood was ready, very smooth, everything is perfect, just one problem IT FLOATS!

The wood in pet shops are ridiculously expensive as is 30 dollars a pound, plus you have to treat it again yourself just to make sure, so basically that wasn't worth it.

I don't want to tie a rock to it, it would look a bit too weird I think, the rock would touch the bottom and the branches and wood would float, I don't think this is a good option. And I can't drill holes in it either.

I've heard I had to let them soak for up to seven days, then they wouldn't float anymore, OR to boil the wood. I already boiled it but it still didn't go to the bottom.

It took me a lot of time to get all that done (like 4 days) and the wood is perfect, better than the ones in the pet stores.



Is there anything else that can be done?


Will they sink after a week of soaking in water?


Is there something I could put on the wood that can be good for my Pleco's and my Cory's? (Like algae spread or something, but nothing that will over-grow and create an algae outburst.)

[MatsP]

The only good way to sink wood is to leave it in water for a long time. 7 days may not be enough.

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Mats

[Violence]

Ok thanks! Should I smear some food or something on the wood? I was thinking of dissolving algae wafers and smearing them on the wood. I just don't want an uber algae outburst in my tank.

You deserve cyber-brownies.

[MatsP]

Ok thanks! Should I smear some food or something on the wood? I was thinking of dissolving algae wafers and smearing them on the wood. I just don't want an uber algae outburst in my tank.

You deserve cyber-brownies.

Not sure what purpose that would serve. Algae-eaters will "scrub" the wood, but I don't see any point in coating the wood with food or antyhing like that.

--
Mats

[Bas Pels]

too bad you turned perfectly good wood into light weight chemical waste I would not dare putting into a tank

The bleach has not only killed nay lifo on the wood, but it also reacted with the wood. It partly destroyed chemical bonds and the remaining componends were chlorinated. Many chlorinated compunds cause cancer . I would not dare risking my plecos to this wood.

The boiling in water, and the oven, damaged the structure of the wood, making is more vulnerable towards decaying, and further the high temperature vaporized all water in the wood

I´m not surprised the wood floated. In fact I would be surprised if it did not

Personally I went to get wood out of peat - that is, plowing farmers find timber in the soil, coming up, and throw it out of the field. This wood is partly conserved, but is still usable to feed plecos. I did brush the larger amounts of peat away, and soaked it in a pond.

Some took a few weeks, others a few months to remain under.

Than I put them into the tanks - over a year back

The costs - I had to drive 200 km, that is 130 miles, but my car was stuffed with wood

[Violence]

I didn't have a choice, I had a ton of spiders jumping out of the wood and I didn't want to put dirty wood in the tank, even scrubbing didn't get rid of anything (trust me, I scrubbed for like 3 hours). I don't want my water to turn amber beacause of the wood tanning (it's called tanning right?) and I don't want dead bugs or dirt floating around either. And the branches I found in the water, well I don't trust Saint-Laurents River water at all.

I thought the smearing of food was a good idea as in they would enjoy it more.

Well I can't really get out of town to go chase wood in fields. I live in Montreal, I'm near a river, but there's NOTHING there, we were looking for wood for 2 hours and only found two branches, we went to parks, the branches were too small, to thin, to huge to do anything with it (they were tiny or whole dead trees, I'm not going with an ax to a public park to cut up wood.) Adn as I said, the pet stores are stealing from people, and their wood isn't that great either.

[MatsP]

Bas makes some good points.

Spiders is not a problem - they will not live in water. Rinsing it under the shower or boiling it will certainly rid it of that. Any river dirt that doesn't come of with scrubbing is probably not going to make any great difference to the aquarium. Washing with or soaking in bleach is not something I would recommend. And as Bas says, "drying it" in the oven will just remove any tendency to sink.

If there is still some pieces outside your house, grab a few new ones, wash them thoroughly, soak them in a bucket until they sink [you may need to replace the water a once or twice a week].

--
Mats

[Bigpig]

I agree with the above posts; dont put the bleached wood into your tank.
You want the wood to be a natural as possible. If you feel you need to, you could rinse it in hot water.
You can use green wood if its oak or beech, peel the bark off, and just soak it until it sinks. Sometime it sinks after about a week, sometimes it takes longer.
This type of wood will rot after a while, but your fish will like it.
I always leave the wood that I am soaking to get some algae on it, as an extra treat for the fish.

[Violence]

I got more wood, even the fresh one doesn't sink... This is frustrating ahhhhh! Mmmm I don't think it's a good idea to throw those chunks of weird wood in the water. They propably have harmful bacteria or mold in/on them (other reason I boiled them).

I have no idea about the kinds of wood I'll just go buy some at the store.

Ewww spider pocket, like 2 HUGE spiders and maybe 200 small ones burst out. I don't like small spiders AHHHHH infestation (I love tarantula's though).

[MatsP]

Most types of wood is OK in tanks. Mould is a good food for algae eating plecos, so they will clean that off as much as they can get to it. Bacteria should not be a problem, I think.

--
Mats

[Violence]

Ohhh that's good! I was super concerned about the mold. But the wood from the river HAS to be treated with something hardcore, they have weird algae there which is horrible (from what I understood in the news) and probably floating with diseases, but it's the best wood I got so far. So that's why I wanted to heavy-duty clean it.

Anyways, I organized an expedition with friends to go find wood, but usually it's whole dead trees so we'll get some axes and stuff, hopefully we won't get arrested

[andywoolloo]

I agree... do not put that wood with bleach on it in your tank, the whole point of scrubbing (with just a clean new brush) and then boiling or dishwashering (without soap) is to kill the baddies.

I have bought some wood that never sank, even after being soaked for months. I just figured oh well and moved on.

interesting points that Bas made, I agree. Maybe we are doing too much to the wood?

[Violence]

Probably, the wood I got from the store I just boiled it for an hour. Well an scrubbed it. But I think some treatment can be good (boiling, sanding, scrubbing). Boiling doesn't always work 100%; after I boiled my wood yeterday, I went to scrub it (it has been boiling for an hour) and there was a spider that jumped out, so if a spider can survive boiling (ohh and humm patato bug? The fat thin grey oval bug there) also survived, so I don't know about the other parasites and bad bacteria and other crap in there.

But I agree, bleach is not a good solution, although my soak was pretty mild (on a 5 gallon bucket I added 2 tea spoons of bleach).

[Bas Pels]

Maybe we are doing too much to the wood?

Perhaps it is a cultural thing. Before I joined this forum, I never heard anyone doing much to the wood (some cook it, to speed sinking up, no more)

I sometimes get the idea people in North America are more afraid of bacteria (et cetera) than Europeans are. Sometimes that is good, sometimes it is not

When I was soaking a large piece of wood, a friend came along. He noticed some bug coming from it, and suggested using this to feed a few large cichlids - by putting the lumber into the big tank. It has a footprint of more then 3 * 3 feet , so it was no simple matter putting it into the tank (over 13 * 3 feet), but it worked out perfectly

[andywoolloo]

i don't know if it's bugs were trying to get out but pesticides and god only knows what. I think it's scary cause you buy it at the fish store and who the heck knows where he got it from. So my thing has always been boil or dishwasher to kill harmful toxins?

Then the brushing and sanding to make it safe for the fish tank? So they can't poke their eyes on sharp bits? then the soak in large garbage can with hot hot water for weeks, to release excess tannins?

But I think you're right about yanks being more paranoid about stuff.

I think if I had found it myself like on my own property in a lake or a stream, I wouldn't be so scared of it.

[MatsP]

Oh, the "kills all (99.9% of) bacteria" adverts are rife here in the UK at least.

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Mats

[racoll]

I would still use the wood you prepared. Your bleach solution was very weak. Just soak it in water with tapsafe added until it sinks.

In agreement with everyone else, I think there is no need to nuke the wood so comprehensively.

I have added dead wood collected from nature straight into the tank with no problems.

I have also added shop bought wood straight to the tank, and all the water went white in 24 hours from the amount of mould growing!

So it all depends on the type of wood really, and it is hard to know this for sure.

Generally the best approach is just to scrub it by hand and soak it for a week to see how it behaves in the water. If I detect mould I soak in a Melafix/Pimafix solution.

Boiling (or dishwasher) is useful to water-log the wood and get excess tannins out, but not always necessary.

You will never need to bleach or oven dry the wood.

[Violence]

I think there is no need to nuke the wood so comprehensively.

I love the sentence and now I love you. Seriously though that made me laugh.

Alright, so I got wood, loads of wood, I boiled it, srcubbed it, I sand it it, and I restrained myself with full force from puttind the wood in the bleach. I think I have a compulsion or something.

Anyways the wood is nice, I tied it together, the motherf***er didn't want to sink, so I made it, I tied it up and I tied a succion cup to the tied up thing. Woaaa that didn't make sense, but it's 8:30am and I didn't sleep and that's the best I can do. That wood almost gave me a nervous break down.

Direct link: http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t17/ ... /wood2.jpg


Direct link: http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t17/ ... /wood3.jpg


Direct link: http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t17/ ... /wood5.jpg


Direct link: http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t17/ ... /wood6.jpg


My Pleco's LOVE it.

[slakey]

I normally just buy from the store, and then just soak for a few days to get the tannins out.

*have you tried to buy wood from ebay, they normally have really nice bits on there*

I've had green mould on a piece of wood that then turned to a cloudy coating around the wood when I filled the tank, few days later was still there, I introduced the guppies and they soon cleared it from the wood

[MatsP]

Good work.

Be aware that most types of wood will not sink until it's been in water for days or weeks, because it needs to soak up a lot of water, the the structure of the wood in itself is not evolved to take up huge amounts of water. So, some patience is needed. Some types of wood does sink, but there's only a few kinds of wood that in "non-waterlogged state" is heavy enough to sink in water. All of these woods are native in exotic places, not in north America or Europe.

--
Mats

[Violence]

Yup, I know, two of the branches sunk, but the rest, as you can see, are still floating, but my Pleco's are having a blast.

[racoll]

Given the amount of questions that crop up regarding wood, I think a Shane's World article would be a good idea.....

[Violence]

My woods working fine, now, I guess, some sank, it's good. Pleco's love it, looks, somewhat weird, Beatlegeuse like, but still, me likes.

[MatsP]

Given the amount of questions that crop up regarding wood, I think a Shane's World article would be a good idea.....

Sounds like a good idea. Are you volunteering? If so, I'll volunteer for the proof-reading.

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Mats

[apistomaster]

I do not worry a great deal about what is in or on the wood I collect. Almost everything I collect is from rivers and I try to find sand and gravel bars that form near eddies in the currents where both the wood and finer grains collect. Usually with some digging, I can pull out wood thsat has been underwater for who knows how many years. I rinse all the silt off and directly place it in an aquarium. The wood collected this way is usually colonized by some aquatic inset larvae which serve as a snack for the fish. Sometimes I do find piece that are still floating but too interesting to pass up. Some of this wood will become water logged within weeks but a large amount can take months.

"Nuking" any wood does not make it better. All wood is subject to some sort of ecological succession where pioneering organisms colonize it whether they hitch hiked in originally or come from within the aquarium. This is a natural and inevitable process. These organisms are not harmful to the fish and all are going to have a transient existence as they are replaced by other bacteria, molds and algae over time.

The wood extracted from peat bogs is probably the best in terms of higher density and has undergone considerable anaerobic conditions and will not bring harmful organisms in. Even if these are bought on line or off the shelf of a fish shop they really only require a rinsing to remove dirt.
I agree that North American aquarists tend to worry too much about bringing in diseases from wood but there is no basis for this fear. You are much better off placing these concerns with new fish purchases than wood.It is always a possibility that whether the source is aquatic, field or peat bog that it is possible to bring in pieces that are contaminated with chemicals. That is why I try to collect primarily from streams. I am lucky that where I live there are two major rivers that have National Forests or Primitive Areas making up much of the water sheds so chemical contamination is not very likely. Pieces with aquatic life already present is a good indication that the wood is not toxic. The tannins released are generally more beneficial than not and whether that is a nuscience is mainly a matter of personal taste. It will diminish over time regardless; water changes gradually control this. I haven't found that boiling makes much difference with regard to long term tannin releases. I bring Canadian peat moss to a boil to hasten water logging and reduce some of the tannins it releases but that is mainly something I use in annual killiefish breeding.

Anchoring floating wood until it stays down on its own is difficult. I have used stainless steel screws and a pre-drilled piece of slate for larger pieces or plexiglas for smaller pieces but either method does depend on having a substrate to add the necessary weight. Other methods such as wedging will work on some pieces. Each piece of wood is unique so likely different methods will work better on some pieces than others.
By far the simplest method is to buy bogwood sold for aquarium use and shop on Ebay or similar venues for the best deals. Just rinse the dirt off and use it as is.

[Bas Pels]

Anchoring floating wood until it stays down on its own is difficult. I have used stainless steel screws and a pre-drilled piece of slate for larger pieces or plexiglas for smaller pieces but either method does depend on having a substrate to add the necessary weight. Other methods such as wedging will work on some pieces. Each piece of wood is unique so likely different methods will work better on some pieces than others.

I just put a rock on it - or more, of a size depending on the wood.

Sometimes it does need some balancing (rocks falling off), but hey, its a hobby, we're enjoying ourselves

[racoll]

I tend to find just wedging larger bits of wood in place using the sides of the tank and other bits of wood works well for me.

[pLaurent1251]

I do buy my wood at petstores. Yes, it's expensive, but lasts so long that it's nearly a one-time purchase. I have wood I've had for 10 years. My plecos adore it. I don't bother with the kind screwed to slate. It's too expensive and I've always just used a rock to hold the wood down until it's waterlogged.

I have never boiled, baked, bleached, scrubbed or sanded any of it - just rinsed it to get any dust off.

Violence, if you take a trip out to St.Lazare, the ol' ice storm left the forests littered with nice hard beechwood branches in interesting shapes and sizes.

Wood is also good since you can attach plants like Java fern and anubias to it. Fish love natural plants and my BNs keep them free of algae!
That would be a good start on a more natural looking tank, if you are so inclined. Most fish don't care for brightly coloured substrate.

My Rio Ucayali pleco spends his days underneath this large driftwood branch and seems to love this habitat: