platydoras costatus: breeding ?

[steph44]

Hello,

I've got 3 platydoras costatus in my tank (1 100L), I got them 2 years ago from their former owner & they were young but not babies.
Since the beginning, I've got a duo and a solitaire (easy to identify bcse of its slightly crippled caudal fin).
The duo have settled in a grotto for a year.
Well, the thing is, for 3 days, I haven't seen any of the 2... they usually come out of their lair as soon as food gets in the tank, but not now.
Only the single one still does.
The pair is in the grotto, one is barring the entrance from the back, the other is mouth & belly against the ceiling, if I may say so, sometimes moving its tail.
I can't see what's going on inside & I don't want to interrupt them as long as they are OK.
I think, but I'm not too sure of what it acually is, I noticed something somehow slimy coming out, in the shape of a Y...

Has anything similar happened to any of you ?

[Yann]

Hi!!

I am not aware of any breeding report with this species...and if it is the case then it should be a premier!!!

keep us update on this...
Still watch closely if they keep being in the cave...maybe trap or something...

Cheers
Yann

[steph44]

Hi!!

I am not aware of any breeding report with this species...and if it is the case then it should be a premier!!!

well, that's why I registered, because as I'm not anxiously careful about my parameters, I thought if it happened to me, it should have happened to others...
still, they are not trapped: the one on the side which bars the way has enough space to move out of the slate cave, and the second one is well able to swim backwards out of it too (saw from behind of the dorsal fin to the caudal) ...................................... From what I saw of them, they look exactly the same (no wound, no skin damage); the thig is, they simply didn't react to the food (which is highly unusual).

I'll try to take pictures, but I'm reluctant about using the flash, and I could film them (but never hosted a video).

[Bas Pels]

WOW

If you only knew how I envy you - I got 3 for 20 years now

1 note of advise: please try to keep tem as wel fed as possible - so in case they are breeding indeed, the fry has as much chance as possible

[steph44]

thanks Bas, but you know, nothing's done yet.
today the rest of the tanf had sticks, sea food, crickets, and green tablets: some reached the bottom but the platydoras didn't show up.
they are well fed the rest of the time: their pectoral fins can hardly touch the sand and I suspect they are to blame for the disappearance of the astronotus fry...

[steph44]

Good afternoon to all,
OK, I checked: still no move, provided that the one which barred the grotto from behind changed places.
I took a few pics, I'll try to show you but, unfortunately my dear husband updated my Windows Live Mail & therefore, I lost most mails with ID & links to my Imageshack account (oh the joy!).
Still, I'll hopefully be able to present you with the dark lair of the mysterious couple & the third merry lad which lies head down 40cm high from the sand.
And some say they hide in the sand...

Here are the pictures:

the slightly crippled platydoras:



the grotto:

[Yann]

Hi Steph!!

Surely well fed!!!;)
Keepiing our fingers cross!!
Cheers
Yann

[steph44]

lol & thanks
I actually don't feed them much but I think they enjoy oscar dang as I never see any in the tank since platydoras have been introduced & yes, surely, anything that reaches the bottom is for them (they are far better than the giibiceps).
I sometimes wonder how they can possibly be so plump & what I can do but apart from "starving" everyone for a week now & then...

if you look at the first grotto picture closely, you'll see platydoras spines on the right

[Yann]

Yeap!! I saw that!!!

Are they still in there??

Cheers
Yann

[steph44]

Hi Yann,

thanks a lot for your interest.
One of the 2 comes out when I feed every day, then goes back & joins its partner that is always in the slate cave.
But that 2nd one never does (at least, not at day time).
I noticed that the gibbiceps are both pretty interested by what's going on in there.

Still, the platydorras could benefit from some impressive protection, as my astronotus removed all the sand( a 35cm circle) for the fry to be (going to lay eggs soon again) just left of the cave.

[steph44]

Hello,
now, there is definitely something: the 2 gibbiceps keep paying visits to the entrance of the grotto (I had noticed before but it's been going on for a few days, more insistingly) but don't dare getting their head in.

Is there anything I can do to ease the platydoras with their spawn / fry ?
If you have suggestions, please let me know.
I'll hoover the bottom of the tank (not close to the grotto, naturally).
I'd love to have a look, of course, but I don't want to spoil everything........................

Are there related species that have previously bred in captivity ? so that I know what could happen afterwards (parenting & stuff).

[Bas Pels]

If it were my tank, I'd try to get the gibbyceps out of the tank - if possible

[steph44]

Gosh, thanks Bas, I'm so stupid I had simply not thought of it...
I guess I could put them temporarily in the 400L (damn, I just finished rearranging the plants!), it's not great neither for them nor for the inhabitants but I don't see any other possibility.

[Bas Pels]

If I can't do the hard questions, I'll do the easy ones

[steph44]

Ok, so here are the "news"...
I just couldn't remove the gibbiceps despite several tries, partly because my oscar couple had laid eggs.
Then, today, I finally made up my mind to lift that slate to uncover what was in the grotto, since no move was seen.
Well, I disclosed what I consider to be the female; it was totally still, no move. I thought I could well be dead but as I tried to make it gently move, the other (the supposed male) just kept coming to check what was going on.
Well, the female is OK, it simply wouldn't leave the place. No visible wound, no vibration as I tried to make it move, nothing.
I put everything back ot its place after I had made sure the fish wasn't partly stuck under a rock.
I managed to take a few pictures, I'll try to show you this evening.

[worton[pl]]

Hey,

have you seen eggs or fry or full interior of a cave? This is really, really strange if there was no spawn why they sit in a cave for such a long time?
Maybe something blocked entrance and they cannot get out?

Hmm maybe female has offspring on belly?

[apistomaster]

I have a suggestion regarding feeding your P. costatus that isn't brilliant but may be practical.
Try delivering their favorite foods though an appropriate length of straight pvc 1/2 I.D. pipe directly to them.
You can easily control the amount you deliver and you should be able to direct the food so it appears just in front of their mouth(s).
This should keep the other fish from eating all the food.

It doesn't sound like they are presently willing to leave their grotto in search of food. Of course, if they have spawned and are guarding eggs or fry, they may just naturally programmed to not actively feed. Many of the cave spawning plecos seem to drastically cut back on feeding during their brood periods but I have never seen any catfish that quit eating entirely during the brooding period.

If no eggs or young can be detected after 10 to 14 days then they are probably not spawning or brooding but rather just found a place the do not want to leave. The have to be eating more than fish scat to remain in such good condition unless you are discovering they are specially adapted to such a diet. I personally doubt they have evolved as scat eaters.

[steph44]

thank you guys a lot, it helps.
I'll do as you say, Larry.
Indeed, the fish is not stuck, and as I removed what can be considered as a roof, it could have gone but it simply refused to move.
No eggs on that slate, none visible on the back side neither, but the tank is pretty deep & it's blackwater.
I'll put more food as you suggest.
Could it be that they've got a second spawning ?

pictures tomorrow morning, promised!
thanks again

[Bas Pels]

With my rhineloricaria I found the male stays immobile for a while after the eggs hatch. My impression was this might be a meganism to prevent canibalism. Could it be you witnessed something similar?

[steph44]

I can't tell, really.
But anyway, here are some of the pictures I took yesterday afternoon (from above the tank):





The cave is narrow, as you can hopefully notice, there are others of various size, so it was chosen & kept willingly.

[Yann]

Hi Steph!!

Have you tried to look underneath??

I know some fish can stay a lot of time in a particular place and decide not to move for some time... strange it has not come out once...probably very late night early morning if it did so...

have you tried to make it move? Was it sort of territorial, like defending hardly the place?

Thanks for keeping us update.
Cheers
Yann

[steph44]

no agressiveness.
I did try to make it move, it simply stick its caudal fin back onto the rock.
As the tank is a bit deep, I only managed to use a fish net & my arm was entirely in the water, bending more could be risky and since I knew that the fish was safe, that was the most timportant to me, though not fully satisfying.

Yesterday early in the evening, it moved in the cave, was pretty active & changed position, but apparently didn't get out.
I followed Larry's advice & I placed several green tablets at the entrance & at the back, and not everything was caught by the metynnis

[Bas Pels]

I only managed to use a fish net & my arm was entirely in the water, bending more could be risky

actually, I never, ever go so fat in any tank as to wet my head. I got one with a with of 100 cm, and height 70 (it's 4 meters long) but I dare not emerse my head: I might get stuck, and drown

[Richard B]

actually, I never, ever go so fat in any tank as to wet my head. I got one with a with of 100 cm, and height 70 (it's 4 meters long) but I dare not emerse my head: I might get stuck, and drown

Wow that's big - you could go for a swim in that!!! (as long as it doesn't contain anything like

Hemibagrus wyckioides

)

[Martin S]

Wow that's big - you could go for a swim in that!!!

Sorry, off topic, but reminds me of the picture taken of CFC's 900G tank

Martin

[apistomaster]

Hi Steph,
I have used that feeding through a pipe trick a few times myself and I am glad it at least it helped deliver the food in the vicinity of the catfish. Don't know if they ate the wafers but at least it reduces the competition.

[steph44]

yes, that's a sensible & practical to do, Larry. I'll do it.

to Martin & others : no problem for the off topic stuff & fun... 900 gallons, wow!
Sometimes I wish I had monkey arms (but forget the hair, uh!), because although I'm not a tall woman, I can't reach the bottom of the tank at arm's length.
When I mean risky, it's because bending more could threaten my balance on the chair; the tank is solid & thick but I guess slipping & hurting the glass would do me no good.( Last february, I managed to get a broken coccyx from falling off a kitchen stool... )

[steph44]

hi everyone,
nothing new, but I added 2 more platydoras costatus yesterday, so that makes 5 now... I hope that will help.