L066 and L333 are not the same fish. From the pictures I would say that they are all L333.
Hi Daragh. I no that L66 and L333 are not the same fish. With the 5 above I think 1 and 5 are L66, 3 and 4 are L333. I am not sure about 2. I just wanted to know people thoughts.
#1 - L333
#2 - L400
#3- L400
#4 - L400
#5 - hard to tell.... i would say L333 because it seems yellow again like the first. however the marking are more L400 so once its settled in, if it goes white rather than yellow its L400.
I have three groups of L066 from different sources that i have kept separate and a group of 3 L333 to which I added a male from a different source, but now I am begging to wonder if the L066 are all L066 or if there are others in there too. All most confusing, I will try and get some photos and get a second opinion.
I think all your pictures shows L66, nice and fat most of them. Their eyes and bodyshape outrules L400, and L333 is a much more compact species. Their colouration can differ from clearly black and white to a little dirty yellow or lightbrown tune in their white pattern, they also show stress colouration on these pictures and when they do their colour change exactly like yours. L66 has a very variable pattern just like most Hypancistrus species, we don't know your water parameters and that affect their colouration too.
im very interested in your thought on these as i bought a group as L287.... they we're then id as L400 and they are exactly the same as most of these....
can you be more specific on the eyes and body shape?
here is a pic of L400 from cat-elog: compare it to picture 2.... they look like the same fish to me????
I'm not sure the pictures in the Cat-eLog really shows L400, for me is L399 and L400 the same species smaller then L66, smaller eyes somewhere between the size of the eyes on L174 and L66 compared with their size of their head. All species above have large eyes and a large compact body shape smilar to normal adults of L66, I can be wrong of course...it's not so easy to id these very similar species coming out from Rio xingu.
I don't recall seeing the 399/400 fish being quite so stubby--I'm reasonably confident that these are 66 (to amend what I'd said on PF), though the ones in the center might be something different...were these all imported together?
I am still no further forward in getting a true ID. The more people look at them the more everyone changes there minds lol.
I dont no of catch location. The bloke I got them off bought them form the same LFS over a period of a few weeks.
Managed to get another picture of N0.2
No they have settled down they are all beginning to look black and grey, Even 1 and 5. More pics to follow
My worry at the moment is that they are in the same 4ft tank and I might end up spawning Hybreds
My worry at the moment is that they are in the same 4ft tank and I might end up spawning Hybreds
Dont worry, no hybrids when all is the same species
Hybrids is the result when 2 different genus breed, for example Hypancistrus + Peckoltia, crossbreed is the result when 2 different species in the same genus breed. You have only one species L66 Hypancistrus sp so just make them breed
My worry at the moment is that they are in the same 4ft tank and I might end up spawning Hybreds
Dont worry, no hybrids when all is the same species
Hybrids is the result when 2 different genus breed, for example Hypancistrus + Peckoltia, crossbreed is the result when 2 different species in the same genus breed. You have only one species L66 Hypancistrus sp so just make them breed
Janne
Sorry, but in my book, two species within one genus is also a hybrid - if that wasn't the case, there would be no Syno hybrids, and I think we can all agree that there are far too many of those.
If we want to have a word crossbreed that is different from hybrid, that would be used in relation to for instance pure breeds of cats (e.g. a persian cross with a Norwegian Forest cat), or if we have two variants of one species of fish that are classified as the same species (There are certainly rift lake cichlids that fall into this category, not sure about Loricariidae).
Have to agree, Matt. By any definition of hybrids I have seen applied to fish, the term of hybrid may be applied from the interbreeding at the subspecies level and inter-specific crosses between species within the same Genus. The next level up would be an inter-generic cross. The probability of hybridization diminishes rapidly at the species level. Fish show considerable variability as to their propensity towards hybridization. Many factors have to be considered.
It is often true that in the artificial confines of an aquarium some fish may hybridize with a closely related species but there are some reasons why I do not think Hypancistrus are good candidates for this occurring. They have fairly elaborate courtship and spawning behaviors and I think these processes serve to effectively screen for haphazard hybridization. Consider the Xingu Hypancistrus spp. Many similar species within the same range maintain their integrity. I see no reason for this factor to change in an aquarium. Then if you take into consideration different Hypancistrus species from different rivers I think that further barriers exist that would be difficult to overcome.
I think if similar Hypancistrus from different river systems did interbreed, it would only strengthen the argument that they are of the same species but exist in different populations. Interbreeding of the same species from different populations is a separate issue but they cannot be called 'hybrids."
Wikipedia wrote:In biology, hybrid has two meanings.[1] The first meaning is the result of interbreeding between two animals or plants of different taxa. Hybrids between different species within the same genus are sometimes known as interspecific hybrids or crosses. Hybrids between different sub-species within a species are known as intra-specific hybrids. Hybrids between different genera are sometimes known as intergeneric hybrids. Extremely rare interfamilial hybrids have been known to occur (such as the guineafowl hybrids). The second type of hybrid consists of crosses between populations, breeds or cultivars within a single species. This second meaning is often used in plant and animal breeding. In plant and animal breeding, hybrids are commonly produced and selected because they have desirable characteristics not found or inconsistently present in the parent individuals or populations. This rearranging of the genetic material between populations or races is often called hybridization.
It's a jungle what to call hybrids or crossbreeds, for me it's much easier to separate them by this way...hybrids 2 different genus and crossbreeds the same genus but different species.
I think if similar Hypancistrus from different river systems did interbreed, it would only strengthen the argument that they are of the same species but exist in different populations.
That depends what the definition is for a species, there are many species of fishes from different locations that share the same genetic but I think it would be sad if we one day had few species but lots of different locations, time to accept subspecies again? The work to give all species a scientic name is a "work of eternity"
