My Pleco's, Fish Room & Big Future Breeding Plans!

[andrewcoxon]

Hi Guys,

I always see these kind of threads and really enjoy reading them, so i have decided to start my own! Iv been very busy over the past few months, i moved into my first house and have been setting up my first fish room!

In addition to this iv had a big tank custom built for my living room, i plan to attempt to breed Panque Cochliodon in here.

The Tank Details:

5.5ft long x 2.3 ft wide x 3 ft tall. filtration is provided by a eheim pro 3. temp is set at 78.5 currently.

I have decorated the tank with a hugh piece of bog wood, some smaller pieces, thin layer of sand + gravel mix, plus some pebbles and boulders.

I still need to add some more pebbles and a cave of some sort.

I have managed to secure a probable pair from 2 different sources, i will be picking up the male next weekend and the female will be arriving the week after. both fish are 10-11" - i cant wait for them to arrive!

I know its not going to be easy and there is a big chance it wont work but im really exicted to try and spawn these fish. If anyone has any input/ideas or if anyone else has spawned some of the larger pleco's (panaque especially) in a tank i would love to hear from you.

here are some pictures of my fish room & big tank so far to show you guys how its all coming along.... and ofcourse once my blue eyes arrive il post some more pics!

Fish Room So Far:



L287 (Well sold as L287's but they could be L399/L400... so id's would be great also!!!!):



L287 Male:



L287 Female:



L174 Tank:



The Big Lad:



Again:



cheers,

andrew

[Richard B]

Some nice tanks/set-ups ther Andrew.

It looks like some penguins & rummynose in some shots - do you use dither fish in all the set-ups & if so how succesful have you been - which species do you find best?

best of luck with the panaques - it would be amazing if you're successful

[apistomaster]

Hi Richard,
I also used a similar design for all my 12 X 30 inch tank stands. 2x 2's with corbels at each corner of the stand to increase the load bearing capacity. The main difference are that my stands have three shelves and I tapered th bottom end of each corbel. My stands hold 2- 20 longs and a 29H on the top level. 2 x 2 can be designed to handle the weight, are very light weight and have a more graceful look than 2 x4's.
They make it possible to arrange them in modules. It is possible to construct double capacity stands using this design that only have six legs.

You know what they say about great minds.

[andrewcoxon]

hi time for a little update.

after quite a long drive yesterday i returned victorious with this.....:







he's showing his stress colours in these pics but i can tell you now he's settled in he's a nice and dark charcole/greeny/black with bright blue eyes.

il try to get some photo's of him in the tank tonight.

thanks

[Loracidlover]

Thats simply beautiful! You're very lucky to have such amazing fish, looks in excellent condition too, did these come from Wildwoods?

Cheers, Conrad

[andrewcoxon]

nope that one was from pier, but the other one im getting is from wildwoods...!

[Kostas]

As for the blue eye...I have no words to describe him,his is the heaviest bodied blue eye i have seen!!!! One word of caution though because of that and the fact that he is the one Pier had imported some time ago:If you look at him and the photos of most other blue eyes carefully,you will see they are quite different...''Normal'' blue eyed plecos,P. cochliodon have a relatively thin body and small body mass for their size...On the other hand,Pier's blue eye has a very heavy body and is really monstrous although not too long(you said it,just 10-11inches...).His body type is titanic Panaque like and probably is another sp. from Panaque cochliodon...He looks a lot like the photos of Panaque suttoni on the Catelog...I am telling you all these because you want to breed them and so you have to make sure that the pair you have is of the same sp. and population too...I dont know how your female looks like but if she is like him,you will be very lucky!You dont see this type of blue eye often if at all...

Btw beautyfull fishroom you have built there!!! The big tank looks great too although it need more huge woods

[andrewcoxon]

hi kostas.

thanks for your input mate!

personally i think suttoni and cochliodon are the same fish....

however, here are some photo's of the female im getting soon. hopefully keith wont mind me posting these. imo these 2 are the same species but i would love to hear you guy's thoughts:









hows your big guy settling in kostas? hope he is well.

all the best,

andrew

[andywoolloo]

wow amazing fish and tanks!! that is one wide and beauty of a pleco!

[Kostas]

According to the description,they arent but anyway till now no fish has been 100% positively ided as being P. suttoni...So we are left with P. cochliodon as the only sure blue eyed pleco...What i said before is that the ones pictured on the Catelog under the name P. suttoni,have different catching location from what P. cochliodon is supposed to have and are also heavier bodied like yours is...Fortunately,the female you are after must also be the same as your male from what i see

He is settling great Andrew! He has healed completely now and he is pulling more cheek odontodes! I am about to get another one in two weeks from now too!!!

Wish you good luck with your pair and...happy breeding!!!

[andrewcoxon]

thanks dude! i too wish you all the luck in the world with your fish! are you getting a pair also??

also i must ask.. where did you get your wood? i cant find any like that!

cheers,

andrew

[Kostas]

Thank you! I am not 100% sure on the sexes but i think i will have a pair then

I imported my wood directly from south America with a help of a friend of mine who has a pet shop...The wood was collected in Equador's rainforest...They are mostly buttress tree roots and some branches... Try contacting a cooperating pet shop in your area and order him big pieces...Most pet shops will manage to find you some 1+meters wood pieces and some even big 1,5 meter pieces of mongroove like wood in a month or two...But its really difficult to get South American wood without spending lots of time on finding a supplier and waiting months for it to ship...But maybe its easir for you as you live far closer to the source than i do

Cheers!
-Konstantinos

[taksan]

If anyone has any input/ideas or if anyone else has spawned some of the larger pl*co's (panaque especially) in a tank i would love to hear from you.

First of all let me say thats a great looking fishroom and some great fish you there.

The good news is contrary to popular held belief some species of the large Panaque complex HAVE been bred in captivity.
The bad news is none of these were bred in tanks but rather they were bred in large outdoor raceway tanks in Malaysia and none of the larger species of Panaques have ever been bred in a tank enviroment.

That said I think a diet of fresh palm wood could assist along with massive current.

Best of luck with your project.

[Joren56]

If anyone has any input/ideas or if anyone else has spawned some of the larger pl*co's (panaque especially) in a tank i would love to hear from you.

First of all let me say thats a great looking fishroom and some great fish you there.

The good news is contrary to popular held belief some species of the large Panaque complex HAVE been bred in captivity.
The bad news is none of these were bred in tanks but rather they were bred in large outdoor raceway tanks in Malaysia and none of the larger species of Panaques have ever been bred in a tank enviroment.

That said I think a diet of fresh palm wood could assist along with massive current.

Best of luck with your project.

I read somewhere on the website P. nigrolineatus were bred in an aquarium with a rain method, I believe it stood in the COTM , but i'm not shore of this. ( sorry for the bad writing )

* edit : the info was on the species page , it's not much but it's something

[andrewcoxon]

thanks for all your reply guys!

time for an update.

the big guy is settling in well, the female arrives tomorrow and this arrived today...

now thats what i call a breeding cave....! lol :yes:

[Bas Pels]

Are you going to breed hobgoblins?

this is a cave indeed

[andrewcoxon]

good morning!

my female has arrived this morning, i carefully acclimitised her and here are some photos of her in her new home.

she's a little smaller than my male but she's a stunner!

[DutchFry]

wow, she is very pretty!

[grokefish]

Great work fella,
I really hope that you have success breeding these fishy's, it would be a great thing and probably very lucrative.
Your set up looks ideal and I think you have many chances of pulling it off.
Good luck!
Matt

[andrewcoxon]

thanks matt,

all i can do is try and if they dont breed i dont mind! i still enjoy keeping them...

[I_Xeno]

Very nice fish
And what a cave

[Kostas]

Great female you got there!!!!
And i wish i could find such a good looking male as yours as mine seems to be a female too...

And the cave is Of course i think its the smaller they would fit in...
Just an idea though,if you can find a fallen tree trunk of a safe tree,you could make a cave out of a portion of it by carving it/having it carved for you to the correct dimensions...That is cause Panaque generally prefer wooden caves and depending on the specieman,may not try ceramic or stone ones...
In my attempt to breed big Panaque,which will be as soon as i find a mate for my L190,i plan to use palm tree wood of the species Syagrus romanzofianna as soon i track a dying specieman in my country or find it anywhere for sale...I too,as taksan says,think a suitable cave is one of the most important things in breeding Panaque and especially the big ones...And palm tree wood is i think whats closer to what they breed in nature as palm wood hollows easily as the center tissue is softer and dissintergrates/is eaten away easily leaving a hollow tube of fibrous wood...

Good luck in your breeding attempt!!!!Wish you success with them soon!!!!

[taksan]

G,i plan to use palm tree wood of the species Syagrus romanzofianna as soon i track a dying specieman in my country or find it anywhere for sale...:

All you require is
1 golf course
1 flatbed truck
1 pair wire cutters
1 chainsaw
and all the palm wood you ever need will be yours .....

[wwg]

hope you can breed the big guys

[andrewcoxon]

Great female you got there!!!!
And i wish i could find such a good looking male as yours as mine seems to be a female too...

And the cave is Of course i think its the smaller they would fit in...
Just an idea though,if you can find a fallen tree trunk of a safe tree,you could make a cave out of a portion of it by carving it/having it carved for you to the correct dimensions...That is cause Panaque generally prefer wooden caves and depending on the specieman,may not try ceramic or stone ones...
In my attempt to breed big Panaque,which will be as soon as i find a mate for my L190,i plan to use palm tree wood of the species Syagrus romanzofianna as soon i track a dying specieman in my country or find it anywhere for sale...I too,as taksan says,think a suitable cave is one of the most important things in breeding Panaque and especially the big ones...And palm tree wood is i think whats closer to what they breed in nature as palm wood hollows easily as the center tissue is softer and dissintergrates/is eaten away easily leaving a hollow tube of fibrous wood...

Good luck in your breeding attempt!!!!Wish you success with them soon!!!!

thanks kostas!

do you think my cave is too big or too small? i was actually planning on having another cave made from wood as iv heard they like wooden caves so i fugured they could then choose the one they prefer. im not sure whats the best way to go about it, id love to find a big log and drill it out but im not sure which woods are safe and which are not and i dont want to take any risks with these so im wondering if its best to buy a big piece of bog wood and drill that...?

what is palm wood? dont know where i can get it in the uk.

thanks

[Kostas]

taksan,i dont plan on chucking down live palms...I like them very much to do something like that
I would only use dead ones...A few years back,two really tall(18-20meters...)Syagrus romanzoffiana died of old age but unfortunately back then,i wasnt imagining that i would be trying breeding big Panaque in a few years...
So now i have to spot others...

Andrew,
Unfortunately I cant tell you if its suitable in dimensions or not as this depends on its dimensions in relation to your biggest male P. cochliodon...A good cave for Panaque is as tall as his body + 2/3 of his dorsal fin and as wide as his body plus 1 pectoral fin open...Also,the cave must be at least 1 and a half times as long as you longest P. cochliodon so that they can both fit at least partly for the spawning to take place...2 times as long is considered better...From what i make out relating the height and length of your cave,your cave may be either a bit too short for them or a bit too tall/wide...But i may be wrong...

As for the wooden cave,making a cave out of a fallen tree's trunk is safe and easy if you choose the right tree.In England you have many safe trees including Oaks,Birch(with outer bark removed) and Beech...I think it wont be very difficult fro you to find fallen trees of that species in a forest near your area...Just read their descriptions well and make sure you positively identify them before cutting them for aquarium use...And of course let them dry a few months if they are recently dead or if you decide to use a live tree...Recently dead ones would be my choice as they are easier to positively id without having any doubt and also their wood hasnt rotten at all which means the cave will last more againt the Panaque teeth:D Curving them while fresh is easier too...And much much easier than curving a bought bog wood...This can be a real pain...And i guess you will need to find a very big and solid piece of bog wood to make a suitable cave for your blue eyes something that i think will be both difficult and pricey...While forest wood is free...

Palm wood is the wood of Palm trees...Here you can see what a Syagrus romanzoffiana palm looks like
I dont know if you can find untreated palm tree wood in UK...Few palms are grown up there and most are small...You could try the tropical wood importers and ask them if they can import a section of untreated palm trunk for you but i would be hesitant to use something like that cause i think you can never be sure with those importers as they normally are not concerned about wood toxicity and what is treated with and what the wood comes in contact with something that could potentially be a dangerous situation... Something that would be a better solution but would require some efford and more money from you is to find someone living in a place were palms are commonly grown and pay him to track you a dead palm of the sp. you want and send you a section of its trunk...Thats what i am gonna do if i cant manage to find one by myself in a resonable amount of time...Of course,if i manage to find one,i will save a piece for you too,they are too big for just me!!!

[andrewcoxon]

hi kostas,

thanks for all the info!!! its very much appreciated!

does the log cave have to be open at both ends or only at 1 end like conventional pleco caves??

if i got a fresh piece and cut a cave into it and left it to dry out for a couple of months would that be enough time to dry and would any sap or resin from oak, birch, ect harm the fish? thats my major concearn!

thanks

[grokefish]

Andrew,
Back when I was a hippy living in a van by the beach, there was a guy called Max that used to make digeredoos ( Don't know if this is the correct spelling.) Anyway he would cut the log lengthways and then hollow each half out then glue them back together.
Do you live in the countryside?
round here you can buy suitable oak and beech logs for this purpose quite easily from farms. Buy using the same technique but substituteing glue for suitable silicone you could probably do the same.
Failing that i have a large oak cave that you can have if you can arrange fed ex or whatever.
It is not nice and neat like your clay one but I think you could utalise it.
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/14018362420.jpg

Matt

[andrewcoxon]

LOL

You used to be a hippy??? hehe

sounds like a good idea! what arethe dimensions on the oak cave?

thanks matt,

andrew

[Kostas]

Hi Andrew!

All the info we have on Panaque breeding comes from the smaller Panaque species...These,as most plecos do,spawn in caves with only one entrance and so i would suppose the big Panaque do the same...Of course,you can also put a two entrance wooden cave as even though they might not breed in it,they will surely enjoy it as a hiding place...

With a fresh piece of the size needed to curve a cave for your Panaque,i think a couple of months is too little for it to thorougly dry...It will be safe though,regardless if its fully dried or not but it will rot if not dried enough...I would leave a piece like that for six months to dry before i used it Dont forget to remove the outter bark of Birch as its slightly toxic although i dont think it would cause any harm as woods thought to be toxic to birds(from where we get most of the info on wood toxicity...),have been successfully used many times be Panaque keepers...These woods i told you that are safe have been many times used by Panaque keepers without any problems...If you want to be 1000% sure and extra causious,go with the oak,there is no toxic part on this tree!!!!

About fixing two half wood parts together with silicone,i would be a bit causious as the Panaque will want to eat the joined wood part too and may eat silicone along with the wood with unknown results on their health...I would also be causious about using screws as when the reach them,they could get damaged at their mouth by grazing on their sharp bolts...Generally,i would do something like that in a Panaque tank,but if i was to do it,i would use short stainless steal nails hammered in slightly predrilled holes so that they would get deep into the wood and out of reach from Panaque teeth for the next several years...