Llanos biotope catfish?

[fishman9809]

ok, I am new here, but I would like to know. I am about to set up a Laguna of the Llanos plains biotope (if u know wat that is). It will be 82 degrees, and I will have 13 red phantom tetras, a pair of Mikrogeophagus Ramerizi, and a suckermouth cat. I cant find any suckermouths that come from the Llanos Lagunas, only the corydoras habrosus. The reason I posted the question here is becuase I found a cat, but I dont know if it is from the Llanos:

Sturisoma tenuirostre

Mod edit: replaced hard coded link: http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... ies_id=936 with

tag above.

[Birger]

Have you read the The Venezuelan Diary Series in http://planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/
There may be something of interest to you in that

Birger

[fishman9809]

I looked at that, it says they found many tetras and German Rams, but they didnt say anything about any cats in the Laguna part of the Llanos

[Jools]

In the Laguna I collected in (dry season) the predominant suckermouth catfish was

Loricariichthys platymetopon

. Check out the link, there are habitat pictures in there too.

Jools

[fishman9809]

Are there anymore? That one is WAY to big, 11.8" , the tank is 30"x12"x12". Man, I really need one to clean algae, the best is otocinclus, but they are not from the Laguna Llanos

[fishman9809]

oh yea, so is the

Sturisoma tenuirostre

found in the Llanos?
[Mod edit: Make clog tags in link, and remove duplicate name --Mats]

[Jools]

oh yea, so is the

Sturisoma tenuirostre

found in the Llanos?

I don't know. If you're looking for something smaller then what about

Panaque maccus

or

Farlowella vittata

.

Jools
[Mod edit: update quote to match the new edited original post --Mats]

[fishman9809]

they come from the Llanos Laguna? Thats awesome!!!! I love farowellas

[fishman9809]

yea, farowellas aare better, they eat algae, maccus mainly eats wood. How many farowellas would go good in my 20 gallon long with 13 red phantom tetras and 2 blue rams?

[Jools]

they come from the Llanos Laguna? Thats awesome!!!! I love farowellas

They live in rivers but are often trapped in Lagunas.

Jools

[fishman9809]

thats awesome!!!! Should I just keep 1? Oh yea, otos are the best algae eaters, are any found in the Laguna?

[Jools]

thats awesome!!!! Should I just keep 1? Oh yea, otos are the best algae eaters, are any found in the Laguna?

What dimensions are a 20 gallon long?

Jools

[fishman9809]

its 12 tall x 12 deep x 30 long. So otos are not found there? Only Farowellas?

[Jools]

its 12 tall x 12 deep x 30 long. So otos are not found there? Only Farowellas?

I don't recall finding any

Otocinclus

(although we did collect them in rivers). I think the fish you're looking for your biotope is

Hypoptopoma

spp. Either that or wait until Shane is back from holiday and ask him as he spent two years collecting in Venezuela. I was only there for a couple of weeks in the dry season.

Jools

[MatsP]

I would assume there is some form of Hypoptopomatinae (the subfamily that Otocinclus belong to) in the Rio Meta, but there's none listed in the Cat-eLog.

One problem with the search function for the Cat-eLog is that it doesn't search "up the order of tributaries", so when you search in Rio Meta, it doesn't cover Rio Orinoco as a whole -

Otocinclus vittatus

is listed as "Rio Orinoco", and that would also cover tributaries of the Orinoco river, which Rio Meta is one of.

Edit: I should expand on that: The way that the database in the Cat-eLog works is that it records the rivers that we have knowledge that this fish inhabits. In some cases, this is listed as "Rio Orinoco". Many rivers flow into the Orinoco, and sometimes these also contains the same species as the main river - in other cases that's NOT the case.

When you click on a river in Cat-eLog "Distribution" field, it will find other fish that live in that river or one of the tributaries of the choosen river. This is ONE way of doing such a search - we could probably come up with (say) a dozen different other ways. We (me and Jools, essentially), because it's a way that makes some sort of sense - but not always and to everyone.

--
Mats

[fishman9809]

I am confused wat u mean, u mean that the cat-e-log does not show the exact location, but more of a generic?

So Otos are from Llanos?

[fishman9809]

anyone know?

[MatsP]

I do not know, but yes, the Cat-eLog has a "known locations list" for each species, and it lists fish that have the same known location (and smaller rivers that flow into it), so for example O. vittatus is covered by "Rio Orinoco". That doesn't in itself mean that it's happy in the Llanos tho'.

--
Mats

[fishman9809]

oh well, i guess I'll stick to either a clown pleco or farowella vittatus

[Shane]

Farlowella vittata, F. mariaelanae, or Sturisoma tenuirostre would be good choices as would Otocinclus as far as being biotope appropriate. As Jools pointed out, Loricariichthys are about the only loricariid that appear to choose to live in this environment, however, many spp are caught in lagunas as the dry season approaches and they are cut off.
I am assuming that you are aware that your tetras are from the upper Orinoco river and not the llanos. Fishes with reds that bright are never (sadly for us) found in white or clear waters.
Lastly, if you already have 13 tetras and two rams in the 20 long, I would consider it fully stocked.
-Shane

[fishman9809]

well, I am thinking about not getting tetras and only a pair of Rams and vittata. Do you know any tetras that come from there that I could possibly put in.

I would have this:

1 pair of Rams
11 tetras
1 vittata

Good or bad idea?

[apistomaster]

Copella spp.
Red Phantom Tetras do best in cool water in the lower 70's. Not very well suited for 84*F or more in which Rams prefer.

A 20 long seems too small for Farlowella or Sturisoma spp to me. Farlowella spp do best in large and heavily planted tanks because they need to be able to graze constantly. It will not take long for even just one to exhaust the algae supply and generally, Farlowella do no thrive on diets consisting of mainly prepared foods or blanched vegetables; these seem to be of more use as supplemental items to more natural foods.

Sturisoma eat algae but are more carnivorous than most Loricaridids and that makes it easier to feed them. They are especially fond of earthworm sticks, frozen bloodworms and live blackworms. That has been my experience as a Sturisoma breeder. Their preference for these foods means that despite their size, they are a better choice than Farlowella for such a small tank.

[fishman9809]

well then I guess otocinclus would be a better choice. Which otos come from this region? Vittatus? If I got the otos, how many should I have? 5?

Idk if I should get the tetras, all the ones from that region do not school like other tetras. Are rummynoses found there? they school like crazy!!!!

if they do come from that region, I could not breed the Rams much, but enough that I would need. for the Rams to keep them from having eggs eaten, I could remove their spawning rock.

how does this sound in a 20 long?:

1 pair of Rams
11 rummynoses (if they come from the Llanos, do they?)
5 otocinclus (which species?)

[MatsP]

Otos like groups - the bigger the better, and 5 is probably the minimum. And yes, O. vittatus is one of the species in that area.

--
Mats

[fishman9809]

Are there any others that come from that area?

How about this?

1 pair of Blue Rams
11 rummynoses (does anyone know if it comes from the Llanos?)
7 otocinclus (which others?)

[Shane]

Rummynose are not found in the llanos. My suggested stocking would be a pair of rams, 5 Otos, and 5 smaller hatchetfish. This would be a nicely balanced 20 long with all levels filled with activity. There are a number of hatchet tetra spp in the llanos. Since not a lot of llanos tetra spp are exported (since they are mainly silvery-gray), this may be a case where you need to settle for a "suitable substitute" rather than an exact biotope match. You could also leave out the Otos and include two pairs of dwarf cichlids, say the rams and a pair of Apistos (A. hongsloi would be a good choice) and the hatchet tetras.
-Shane

[fishman9809]

hatchets are crazy jumpers FIY, my tank is open top, darn. I guess I cant have tetras

[fishman9809]

Can you list ALL fish that come from the Llanos Lagunas (not only catfish, ALL)

Then I can pick some out and ask the cichlid forums, and here, whether or not it would be a good combo. Also, I am getting a few plants and they are already on the way, but I am unsure if they are Llanos material. I have Echinodorus, which are from there, Stargrass (unsure), Amazon Frogbit (unsure), and X-mas Moss (unsure). If the frogbit is not from the Llanos, are there any floating plants like Salvinia minima from the Llanos?

[Plecofanatic1989]

Hi.
I found this site while looking for llanos fish species. I know that this is a list of fish from the Orinoco (Venezuela), not the llanos, but i think you may be able to find some species that suit you since the llanos is part of the Orinoco. Most of these species aren't suited to your 20L and not all of these species are even available for the aquarium trade.
http://fish.mongabay.com/data/ecosystems/Orinoco.htm
Good luck,
Josh

[fishman9809]

is there a way on this page to tell which are Llanos and which are not Llanos Laguna?

Thanks,

Nick