Mopani Driftwood?

[toddnbecka]

Simply, is it suitable for gnawing on by the "aquatic termite" species, or is it too hard to be useful to them? Is there any particular type of wood that is better/best for that purpose?

[racoll]

Is it for the Panaque L204 you are planning to breed?

They will eat mopani or other hardwoods in the absence of better wood, but when given the choice, they barely touch it.

If you want to get them in prime breeding condition, I recommend a softer wood such as apple, cherry or birch.

They will get much more nutrition out of this kind of wood.

[Richard B]

Racoll couldn't have put it better - mopani is really for aesthetics

[toddnbecka]

There is plenty of softer wood available locally, but apple and cherry driftwood? For that matter, how would you determine what kind of driftwood you have? (Aside from mopani, locally collected or bought online?) Or can dead wood simply be soaked until it sinks for the fish to gnaw on? I don't understand how a fish would get much, if any, nutrition from wood to begin with. Aside from that, how long between the time the wood falls into the water and the fish begin eating it in their natural environment?
I'm wondering about the wood-gnawing species in general, though more specifically the L204 and L333.

[Shane]

Just pointing out that Mopani is not driftwood. It is a tree native to South Africa that is super dense as a defense against termites (like the local ironwood). The first time "Mopani driftwood" has ever been submerged is when you put it in your tank. This is why it leeches so many tannins.

I have seen Panaque eat plenty of Mopani, once the wood was aged a bit and softened up.
-Shane

[racoll]

Just pointing out that Mopani is not driftwood

Ah, the old "what is driftwood" question. Shane, I always thought that driftwood was a generic term in the States for any decorative aquarium wood sold in shops, much the same as Brits refer to the same stuff as bogwood (which mostly has never seen a bog). It is usually Malaysian or mopani hardwoods that sink in the aquarium without presoaking.

here is plenty of softer wood available locally, but apple and cherry driftwood? Or can dead wood simply be soaked until it sinks for the fish to gnaw on?

You are right. You cannot buy the soft woods in shops, you must collect these yourself. Get dry, dead branches up to about 3" in diameter. I put these straight into the tank and after a couple of months, peeled off the bark with a knife. If you can pre-soak them in say an old aquarium, that would be better though. Here's what I've done with my Panaque tank. I have a mixture of loads of different types of wood from all over the place, but the Panaque go mad for the soft birch branches.

I don't understand how a fish would get much, if any, nutrition from wood to begin with

I agree. Pretty adaptable and resourceful creatures! I think rather than get nutrition from the wood, they probably get it from digesting the microorganisms they have in their gut that break down the wood.

I'm wondering about the wood-gnawing species in general, though more specifically the L204 and L333.

Hypancistrus L333 is not a wood eating pleco, and although many species graze on, and often ingest some wood, it is only the primary foodstuff of Panaque and the members of the Hypostomus cochliodon species group.

Aside from that, how long between the time the wood falls into the water and the fish begin eating it in their natural environment?

Can't remember, although this has been discussed before. I remember Shane noted they are frequently associated with palm wood. Everyone then rushed out and bought hearts of palm for their plecos!

[toddnbecka]

Driftwood is widely available on the internet, particularly on e-bay. Apparently there are plenty of folks who collect it from various lakes and rivers, hoping to make a few $$ selling it online. Naturally, no clue what sort of tree any of it's from. There's also plenty to be found along the banks of local waters, but you never know what contaminants may come along with it. Overall I think it's much safer to collect dead branches from known origins.
Actually, I have a small pond in the back yard that would be great for soaking branches in. One cherry tree in the yard, but there's an apple orchard just a few miles from my house. Birch may be a little tougher to track down, I'll have to see what I can find. I have several pieces of the dense stuff, not quite sure whether it's mopani or malaysian, or how to tell the difference.
I haven't even got the tank set up for the L204's yet, much less ordered them. I do have some L333 fry arriving tomorrow, but no hurry to get a breeding tank ready for them. I had the impression (not sure why) that they were also fond of gnawing on wood, along with meatier foods. Probably too much time looking through various L-numbers and not enough focus on individual species.
Thanks for helping clear things up a bit.

[andywoolloo]

beautiful tank picture, racoll.

[panaque]

Rather than dead wood I have used winter prunings from our apple tree for my Panaque maccus. The advantage of this is that it sinks immediately without presoaking. Initially the fish ignored it but they have now discovered it and have stripped much of the bark (which they don't seem to like much) off and are spending much of their time gnawing the wood. As for nutricion: One end of one of the branches was not accessible to the fish and got covered in fungus which disappeared overnight when I moved the branch. I was a bit worried that using fresh wood could cause problems with water quality so I kept a close eye on that and there has been no noticable effect. Next I intend to hollow out some thicker branches to use as caves.

[racoll]

beautiful tank picture, racoll.

Thank you.

Rather than dead wood I have used winter prunings from our apple tree

Interesting. Its great that people test new things that go against the accepted wisdom. This is the only way the hobby moves forward. I will bear this in mind. It will certainly be a lot easier to track down than dead wood...

One cherry tree in the yard, but there's an apple orchard just a few miles from my house. Birch may be a little tougher to track down

It doesn't have to be these species, but these I know are safe. You can use any type of wood provided it is not toxic or full of resins etc. Avoid coniferous trees for these reasons.

Oak and beech also work, as well as most fruit trees.

[Shane]

Ah, the old "what is driftwood" question. Shane, I always thought that driftwood was a generic term in the States for any decorative aquarium wood sold in shops, much the same as Brits refer to the same stuff as bogwood (which mostly has never seen a bog). It is usually Malaysian or mopani hardwoods that sink in the aquarium without presoaking.

I understand your point that any wood placed in an aquarium as a decoration is often called "driftwood" or "bogwood." I meant that Mopani is not driftwood in the dictionary definition sense:
–noun
1. wood floating on a body of water or cast ashore by it.
2. such wood adapted for use in interior decoration.
–adjective
3. of, pertaining to, or made of driftwood.

From Wikipedia:

The mopane or mopani (Colophospermum mopane) tree grows in hot, dry, low-lying areas, 200-1,150 m, in the far northern parts of southern Africa, into South Africa, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Botswana, Zambia, Namibia, Angola and Malawi. The genus Colophospermum only occurs in Africa and is the only species in the genus. The species name mopane is taken from the local name for the tree. The mopane is in the legume family (Fabaceae).
Mopane wood is one of southern Africa's heaviest timbers and is difficult to work because of its hardness. However, this also makes it termite resistant. For this reason it has long been used for building houses and fences, as railway sleepers and as pit props. The termite-resistance and rich, reddish colouring also make it popular for flooring. Outside Africa, mopane is gaining popularity as a heavy, decorative wood, its uses including aquarium ornaments and bases for lamps or sculptures.

A loricariid would never naturally come across mopani (trust me, I have looked for them here), but most spp seem to have little trouble eating it after it has soaked a few months.
-Shane

[Suckermouth]

I remember Shane noted they are frequently associated with palm wood. Everyone then rushed out and bought hearts of palm for their pl*cos!

Just a few days ago I was reflecting on Panaque being associated with palms and considering going out and trying heart of palm as a plec food, lol.

Interesting that cherry is fine. I know that black cherry leaves are toxic, but I suppose the wood could still be safe. At the very least, perhaps it would be wise to strip wood of any leaves.

[Seedy]

Of all the North American trees limbs I have fed to my Panaque species, they seem to like willow and the fruit/nut trees the best (apple, pecan).

I believe in another thread similar to this it was pointed out that conifers can be toxic, however once they have been in a river for a few years, anything toxic has already leached out. I would think anything that one collects that has 1) already sunk to the bottom and 2) has clearly been in water for 12+ months should be good food for Panaque. Personally, I mix mopani, malaysian, dry oak, relatively fresh oak, unknown river wood, maple (fresh sticks, bark and old wood), willow, apple, pecan and whatever veggies I find at the supermarket...