pregnant tatia perugiae (oil catfish)

[fishy]

So I just snuck up on my their tank and turned the lights on as I never see them as was curious to see how they were doing and if they were still alive in there or what. Well, it looks to me like both females are prego! I could be wrong but they are quite, quite fat and I thought I could see eggs? Hard to tell though, they took a dive into the java moss as soon as the lights went on.

They are in a 20g long, 2F/1M with a few ghost shrimp and lots of MTS. There is some driftwood, a flowerpot, lots of java moss and floating hornwort.

Should I try to remove the females or the male to a different tank? Would they eat the babies?

Thanks for any advice,

Fishy

[CatfishBoogie]

Fishy,
If your perugiaes are carrying eggs, you should provide them with bogwood with caves that are tight for them to squeeze into. They will lay their eggs in the bogwood. The fry, once hatched should be given plenty of places to hide, then the adults should be ok with them.
I have had eggs but lost the fry when hatched artificially.

Mark

[fishy]

Well, I think they may have just been stuffed full of bloodworms, as I don't see any eggs. I have added more driftwood so there are lots of tight spaces. I've Also added 2 more males + 1 female for a total of 3 females/3 males in a 20g long tank. I think they are not full grown yet, they are only about 1.5 -2" at most.

[apistomaster]

I had 20 Tatia perugiae I hoped to breed but had an accident and lost them all after having them over one year. They were all adults and they would get very fat after gorging on frozen blood worms. I think it is always risky to start counting the kittys before they hatch.

I hate to hear that artificial hatching did not work out. I never was fortunate to get a spawn while I had them. One of my favorites among the unusual SA catfish. I would try them again if I came across a good deal.

[fishy]

Hmm, from the breeding article on this site, it gives the impression that they are easy to breed. I guess not. Does any body have any tips on getting them to breed? Our tap water is quite soft, GH 4, KH 2, pH around 6.2. I keep them at about 80F and run an aquaclear and a large sponge filter on their tank. They are primarily eating frozen bloodworms, I've got both live blackworms and whiteworms but they don't really seem interested in them. As soon as the weather gets warmer I'll be able to get a glassworm culture going for them.

fishy

[Marc van Arc]

Ime they are not that difficult to breed when given the proper food and circumstances, which you do.
Tatia will generally not eat their own eggs but differ a lot with regard to given care. T. intermedia will lay their eggs somewhere and leave it at that. T. perugiae will stay with the eggs until they hatch and the juvies swim out.
If you really want to breed them I suggest you'd set up a Q-tank. In a regular set up you'll see that once the juvies are on the move they'll be threatened by every fish in the tank - including their parents - for our fishes are not able to distinguish between small food particles and juvenile Tatias

[fishy]

They are the only fish in the tank right now. I don't have anything setup for any potential babies right yet, but I do have a few breeder nets I could use until I could get something setup. Is 80F too warm to keep them? Should I be doing frequent water changes with slightly cooler water to get them going? Currently I change 50% every 5-7 days.

fishy

[Marc van Arc]

They are the only fish in the tank right now. I don't have anything setup for any potential babies right yet, but I do have a few breeder nets I could use until I could get something setup. Is 80F too warm to keep them? Should I be doing frequent water changes with slightly cooler water to get them going? Currently I change 50% every 5-7 days.

80F (27C) is okay. Imo your frequency is good enough and I shouldn't do more. I do a change of 25% per 4 weeks and a week later (still in the same period) I do the filter which is another 25%. Slightly cooler water might well do the trick, especially when added as "rain".
Major issue: don't hassle too much. Best thing is to keep them in their normal environment and make sure possible spawning sites are visible to you without having to put the whole tank upside down, thus knowing what's going on without having to disturb your fishes. By doing so, you should be able to find out if there are eggs and when they hatch. After that I'd get the parents out (easier to catch 3 adults than plenty of very fragile juvies), preferably at night when they are cruising the surface for food. I don't know if your shrimps may be a threat to baby fish?
Good luck & keep us posted.

[apistomaster]

I wouldn't leave the ghost shrimp in the breeding tank. They are a potential threat to eggs or fry.
Cherry Shrimp would be safe.

[fishy]

The ghost shrimp were removed a few weeks back, but I added 3 more adults for a total of 3M/3F.

fishy

[apistomaster]

Glass shrimp are more bold than many shrimp like Amanos and maybe they could harm T. perugiae eggs or fry but even they are problebly safer than I made them sound. i have had many Corydoras fry that hatched in with glass shrimp make it to maturity.
Maybe someday you will have the chance to try them once you raise a few spawns? Predictions like this are really only speculations.

[fishy]

So now it's the hard part, waiting.

[fishy]

Ok, so I have another question. It is my understanding that once the female appears gravid, the eggs are already fertilized and so could be moved to her own tank without a male? Is this correct?

Also, I've noticed I have quite a planaria infestation going in their tank. Is there something I could use to kill the planaria that would be safe for the fish or would I be best off moving the fish to another tank temporarily.

Thanks!

Fishy

[Suckermouth]

It is possible that your females are just eating a ton and getting fat. This along with the fact that there is a planaria infestation makes me think you are probably overfeeding your fish. Cleaning the tank of uneaten food regularly, or simply feeding less, will keep the planaria down.

[Marc van Arc]

It is my understanding that once the female appears gravid, the eggs are already fertilized and so could be moved to her own tank without a male? Is this correct?

Yes. See picture on data sheet for an example of a gravid female

Tatia perugiae

[fishy]

Yeah, they could be just getting fat. It's hard to tell. I'll try to get in there for a deep clean and then cut down on the feeding. The tank is filled with driftwood and plants so it's a bit hard to do a gravel vac without tearing apart the tank.

fishy

[Marc van Arc]

Also, I've noticed I have quite a planaria infestation going in their tank. Is there something I could use to kill the planaria that would be safe for the fish

Don't use any (chemical) medication. Gouramies (like Colisa and Trichogaster) are very fond of planaria. Extra advantage: no need to tear the whole place apart. Not even when you decide that they are temporary guests, because they are easily caught.

[apistomaster]

Yeah, they could be just getting fat. It's hard to tell. I'll try to get in there for a deep clean and then cut down on the feeding. The tank is filled with driftwood and plants so it's a bit hard to do a gravel vac without tearing apart the tank.

fishy

I find that even a heavily planted tank may be "hydro-vacuumed". Just ignore the roots and allow the cleaned sand to fall back in place. This does not seem to set plants back any. Just allow the vac tube to gently lift the substrate, don't force it through the roots. I pot everything these days so whereever I do have deep substrates I can move plants if need be and cover 100% of the substrate without causing any harm to the plants. Some of the smaller Gladware food containers make low profile almost invisible pots. It is not necessary or even desirable to provide "drainage" holes as the roots will find their way out and into the surrounding substrate. Subsrate fertilizers are better constrained within the closed pots.

It may be worth adding about a 1/2 tspn of 5% flubendazole powder to 20 gallons to kill Planarians. While I haven't tried it on them I have been able to eradicate Hydra virescens infestations by treating all my tanks twice about a week apart. Nothing else worked and I tried for several years to eradicate the Hydra which can bloom to enormous population densities if you feed live bbs daily. This dose will not harm fish or plants. I went 35 years without having to deal with Hydras but when I set up my latest fish room they got a foot hold that was unbelievable.
Dissolve/suspend the powder as best you can in a little hot water to aid in dispersal.

[fishy]

Thank you for the replies. I'm going to try to get some flubendazole, it is quite hard to come by here in Canada. I'll cut the feeding down too, it's hard to do..they just seem so hungry!

fishy