Keeping them for just a while...

[Alan]

On several threads on here I've read comments from people who get fish with the intention of...

re-housing some when they get too big

Am I the only person who doesn't like the idea of this? I replied to one thread with this:

You might be fine with it, as will others on here, but I don't really like the idea of taking on fish for a short time, to get rid when they get too big for your tank. I treat my fish like any other pet - I wouldn't buy a Wolf-Hound, or Great Dane knowing I couldn't look after it when it grew to it's full size, intending to re-home it in a year or so. But that might just be me.

What are other people's thoughts on this? Do you buy a fish for the rest of its natural life, or with the intention of trading it in after it gets too big, or if you get bored with it, even? (I know there are times when you simply cannot keep them any more - moving to a house/flat without space, money problems, new job, etc)

[MatsP]

My philosophy is "get the tank first, then the fish", and if you look at some of the threads on the subject of certain large fish, I recommend this to others - because, as you say, there are situations where future doesn't work out as you planned it. And my rule is a tank size of at least 4L x 2L x 2L, where L is the length of the fish.

--
Mats

[Suckermouth]

I was surprised how many people give fish away or back to the LFS, but as I pay attention more it appears that it's been happening all along. There are a lot of large fish around that could only be trade-ins.

I also am of the philosophy that one should intend to keep large fish for the long haul; after all, they're the best when they're big. It appears some people don't get attached to their fish at all; not if they can just trade them in like that.

I don't like it, but I'm not sure there's really anything wrong with it; it does beat large fish being confined to tanks too small for the rest of their natural lives. It seems people just adopt a "not my problem" stance as long as the fish isn't in their own tank anymore, which may or may not be flawed viewpoint.

[apistomaster]

It is unfortunate but this practice will never stop.
Some do buy fish knowing they will never supply proper conditions for the long run but there are also many times when due to other circumstance people must give up their fish. Better that they return them to a shop than turning them loose illegally to local waters.

[Carp37]

I agree with most of the sentiments on here- whilst I might be willing to trade fish with fellow aquarists if I grow fish on and get a skewed sex ratio, therefore I might swap males for females or vice versa, or swap fry for fry of a different species, I always intend to keep fish I buy rather than take them back after I've kept them a while. I do get more attached to some fish than others (in general catfish and some cichlids) and less attached to individuals of shoaling species, but I'd never take on a fish with the view to getting rid of it a couple of years down the line because it's got too big for the tank or just because I want something different. As Suckermouth says, fish tend to look most impressive and show their most natural behaviour when they get to their adult size, and I DO regard my fish as prized pets (hence the fact that I've gone from 3 tanks to 8 this year and have an electricity bill to worry a small firm).

[Bas Pels]

As Matt above, I start with small fish, in order to enjoy them more when grown. I think I'm responsible for my fishes well being, a responsability which should not be passed on.

However, in general, I don't think I should expect others to life along my lines, and if someone starts with finding a solution about what to do with the redtail catfish when it gets to say 1 meter, and after this has succeeded, buys one at 10 cm, I will not mind. perfect solution

The problem is, people start looking for a new home after they get the fish, in fact they even start looking after it has grown too large

[ShadowDancer10k]

i am of the belief that once you get a pet, you should stick with it. if you lose interest, well, in my book, you shouldnt; have gotten it in the first place as those people apparently weren;t all that crazy about their pets to begin with. in my opinion,. now of course, you may have financial issues which prevent you from taking care of your beloved pet and you may have no choice but to rehome. when i get a pet, regardless of what it is, i take care of it for the rest of its life. i get VERY attached to my pets not just fish but others as well. sometimes all it takes is one look and i;m smitten with the animal. i would not ever give up any pets as they are MY responsibility and i look after their wellbeing. i just can;t give up pets, it is not in my nature to do so. ever. but everyone is different. i mean, if i had too many fry for example and not enough room then that is a different story. but so far,, that has not happened.

[DAWN]

Doesn't it depend on if people have enough room to keep them?

[drpleco]

I trade fish in all the time and don't see anything wrong with it. I'll pick something up, breed it, then trade it for something else I want to try. That gives someone else the same enjoyment with my original fish, and I get to try something new. There are a few fish I keep around as pets, and they're here for the long-haul, but I see nothing wrong with moving some fish around.

Of course, I'm dealing with small plecos, cichlids, and catfish, not redtails or the like. THAT's a different story, IMO. Buying a monster with the knowledge that you'll need to trade it in later is irresponsible.

I also breed syno multis and it's necessary to trade for new fish with them. The mbuna I use as hosts will get wise after a while so I bring in new breeding groups every so often. Again, someone gets my nice breeders and I get to raise up some new ones. Everyone wins. (and the fish don't seem to mind escaping the multis, either).

I think motivation behind trading things is a big factor here. It's easy to villain-ize people who trade in fish, but not all are evil. Perfect world, yeah, we'd all keep every fish for the duration of its natural lifetime - but life is short, why not try new stuff once in a while?

[Alan]

Doesn't it depend on if people have enough room to keep them?

No. The point I'm making is this: If you know how big a fish/animal gets, and you know you cannot keep it once it attains that size, should you still get it, with the intention of selling/off-loading/passing it on when it's too big for you?

Fry is not covered in this topic; and having to get rid of fish due to changes in circumstance (losing a job, moving to a smaller house, etc.) is a different kettle of mullet (or any other fish you care to choose! ;->).

EDIT (after reading drgold): I would agree that someone who keeps fish to breed and improve the gene pool of fish in the aquarium trade would require numerous different fish, making it often completely impractical or impossible to keep all their fish. However, just because you "fancy a change" isn't really acceptable in my opinion. If you can't, or aren't prepared to, keep an animal in a suitable environment for the rest of it's natural, then I'd question if you are taking them on for the right reasons.

[drpleco]

I guess we'll agree to disagree then. If you, or anyone, want(s) to keep a fish for the duration, then more power to ya.

I keep fish as pets AND as part of a hobby. For the hobby part, a lot of the fun comes with trying something new. If we kept every fish for their entire lives, the extra/additional tanks would soon take over. I'd rather pay close attention to a few groups/tanks, rather than have a housefull that I can't manage, all the while constantly wondering how it would be with something different.

I respect a different take, but that's not how I do things. It's not how most hobbiests do, either. That's all I'll say on that.

[racoll]

I have to agree with drgold on this one. I see no problem providing the fish go to a responsible LFS or traded with a fellow hobbyist.

However there is a big difference in what he/we is talking about, and the buying of tankbuster fish, with the intention of moving it on when it becomes a problem.

[Bas Pels]

EDIT (after reading drgold): I would agree that someone who keeps fish to breed and improve the gene pool of fish in the aquarium trade would require numerous different fish, making it often completely impractical or impossible to keep all their fish. However, just because you "fancy a change" isn't really acceptable in my opinion. If you can't, or aren't prepared to, keep an animal in a suitable environment for the rest of it's natural, then I'd question if you are taking them on for the right reasons.

Here I disagree. I have a 4 meter tasnk in my livingroom, and looking back, I changed it's contents twice times in the period I habve it - that is, in the last 4.5 years, the last was last summer.

However, I put the fishes in other tanks I have, so I did not sell any. But do you really think this is better than my neighbor who swaps them with a friend?

In 2004 I got a group of Amphiliphus longimanus, a cichlid. I've enjoyed keeping them, but now it's time for them to move on. I think I'll be able to find a good house for them in the next 6 months

In my opinion, I'm responsible for my fishes well beeing. I can keep them myself, but finding someone else who takes care of them is just as acceptable, to me.

[Mike_Noren]

I don't see an inherent problem in trading fish. Heck, I trade with other hobbyists all the time.

To me the problem with fish like redtails and paroons is that basically only public aquaria have the facilities to take care of them once they grow up, and those are usulally already full - making their keeping a game of musical chairs.
They may start out and even pass through a progression of good homes, but the last owner will have to destroy the fish or house it in a much too small aquarium. If the fish at all survives that long in cramped, underfiltered, quarters, of course.

Basically, in my opinion, the problem isn't the trading, but that some fish get traded because they are inherently unsuitable as aquarium fish.

[MatsP]

I completely agree that trading and "not planning to keep the fish forever" in itself is not a bad idea.

Certain fish, however, can not be housed in anything below indoor ponds. This makes the keeping of them for a short term a problem, because as long as the fish sell, they will continue to be imported.

--
Mats

[drpleco]

Agreed Mats. It'd be nice to see permit/license required on large tankbusters, or make them all special-order. If someone can afford the indoor pond, they can shell out another couple hundred bucks to import the fish. If not, I guess they'll have to settle for normal fish at the LFS.

oh well, we can dream....

[Bas Pels]

As drgold suggested, and was suggested on a Dutch forum I frequent, the fishes unfit to be kept in a tank should be regulated through permits - expensive ones

People interested in keeping such fishes, should apply for a permit, their premisses should be inspected and the permit can be granted - assuming the premises are acceptable - for a certain amount of a certain species.

With the permit the fish can be orderedthrough an importer, and kept. Naturally, a yearly inspection through a vet would be needed as well

I'm afraid I won't lefe to see this being implemented

[MatsP]

Not to mention that you'll get a bunch of people saying that you're part of "big brother" or some such. I completely agree, but there are always some people who seem to think that although the rules themselves are a bigger problem than the subject they are trying to deal with...

--
Mats

[darkwolf29a]

I trade fish all the time, just not back to an LFS. LOL

Honestly, when I get fish, I have a purpose for them...to enjoy. I try to make sure that I have the room for all the fish I want, and if I don't....I don't take/buy/adopt the fish. I love every fish I see, so saying no is hard, but I try to think about the happiness of my fish and try to give them all ample room to grow and thrive. If I can't do that, I don't take them on.

I'll admit to breeding fish with the thought of getting rid of them. For example, I have convicts that I don't intend on keeping any more. I have a guy in town that, supposedly, wants them. I still have to check for this last batch. After that, I'll be finding someone who wants the parents, as I don't want them to breed any more. Right now, the pair is in a 10 gallon tank, awaiting some sort of conclusion from me. I do have an auction at the end of the month that they will be going to, if nothing else. As for the rest of my fish...I have them just to have them, even better if I get them to breed, as I'm hoping to do with my L15s and my BNs. Honestly, I've reached that point with my fish, where I'm getting breeding stock, with the thought of selling/adopting out the children as they grow. I'll have to see how that works as they breed.