Possable hybrid catfish

[Sandtiger]

A member at another forum I visit posted some pictures of a catfish he said was a hybrid between a paroon shark and redtail catfish. I don't buy it. These fish don't belong to the same family and the fish in the pictures don't look like either fish. With the permission of the owner I am posting the pictures here to confirm if it is a hybrid or not and if not exactly what it is.

[Suckermouth]

It's certainly not a cross-familial hybrid, but I'm not sure what it could be. It's definitely not a pangasiid, and it doesn't look like any pim I know of either. I think only a few catfish families have only two pairs of barbels. It might be an ariid of some kind, but I'm not really sure. Sorry I can't be more help.

[Richard B]

I may be wrong but i think this might be as suggested RTC X Paroon.

I remember Silurus a while back stating that there had been a cross of 2 completely different species from different families, & that was quite staggering (If you don't know already, Silurus is a man in the know, so this info would be 100% genuine - it might have been a clarias x pangasius but it was certainly something utterly surprising. This would clearly be accomplished but non-natural methods

I'd really like Silurus to comment on this - are you out there HH?

[Richard B]

I thought Ariids had 3 pairs of barbels?

[MatsP]

I think, from looking at the pictures, that the Ariidae have two pairs of barbels, but they are both on the lower jaw.

Pimelodids have 6, so that rules that one out.

Not quite sure what it would be.

--
Mats

[Richard B]

H.Seemanni certainly has 3 pairs of barbels

[Silurus]

It looks plausibly a hybrid to me, if only because I have not encountered any catfish species that looks like the fish and I can see a vague resemblance to a pangasiid. I'm not aware that pimelodid x pangasiid crosses have been previously shown to be possible, although as Richard pointed out, pangasiid x clariid crosses have been demonstrated.

[Suckermouth]

Oh wow, I was not aware that cross-family hybrids were possible. Among the families, though, Ariidae has a number of silvery species with general catfish appearances, so I was just grasping at straws; as I noted I wasn't really sure at all. It does look a tad like a a red tail kitten...

[Sandtiger]

I know some cross-family hybrids are possible but as I understand it they are very rare. I guess there is a cross between tiger shovelnoses (Pimelodidae) and ripsaws (Doradidae) as well.
Thanks for the help guys. I did not realize that such a hybrid was possible and cannot really imagine why anyone would want to create it. I'm a bit less skeptical then I was but I still believe this fish to be something else.

[Richard B]

Are there any key factors why you think it is something else? Are you aware of any info as to where the fish came from, what it was sold as etc given the look of the fish it has that pim/mystus appearance but with 6 & eight barbels respectively it clearly isn't (unless there is a really small hidden pair under the chin, flat to the body?) Are there any more photos?

I personally don't like the hybrid situation we find ourselves in - particulalrly with synos but i do like to see new discoveries or new imports so would love to know for definate what this is, although i have this gut feeling it is man made, & if Silurus hasn't seen anything looking like this before it kinda sways my view.

Anyone else got any thoughts?

[Jools]

Looks like the suggested hybrid to me too. I wouldn't mind adding the pic to the cat-elog (I never did get one of the Doradid cross). I think we'd know more as it grows up.

Jools
[Mod edit: Fix minor typo --Mats]

[Sandtiger]

Are there any key factors why you think it is something else? Are you aware of any info as to where the fish came from, what it was sold as etc given the look of the fish it has that pim/mystus appearance but with 6 & eight barbels respectively it clearly isn't (unless there is a really small hidden pair under the chin, flat to the body?) Are there any more photos?

I personally don't like the hybrid situation we find ourselves in - particulalrly with synos but i do like to see new discoveries or new imports so would love to know for definate what this is, although i have this gut feeling it is man made, & if Silurus hasn't seen anything looking like this before it kinda sways my view.

Anyone else got any thoughts?

Sorry but I don't have much other info about the fish. Don't know it's origin, don't even know what country the owner lives in. I do have another picture though, not of the same fish. The first photo I posted isn't his as it turns out, just an example of the fish he has. Here is a photo of his fish, he says it is the same hybrid.

[Jeox]

Yeah.
Mines just not quite so fat as the first picture, and the sna dwashes him out a bit, but it looks the same.
He occasionally will swim like a paroon too.
Im in the US BTW

[Jools]

Yeah.
Mines just not quite so fat as the first picture, and the sna dwashes him out a bit, but it looks the same.
He occasionally will swim like a paroon too.
Im in the US BTW

So, do you have photos of the fish you're willing for the site to use by any chance?

The fish in the second picture doesn't have the same big head and does look a but different but the angle makes it hard to really say why.

Jools

[Richard B]

This second photo looks (IMHO) very different to the first - look at the main set of barbels, colour & length - it has elements of Chrysichthys/aluminium cat or clarotes & as Jools observed , the head seems different although the angle is not complementry to this

[Jeox]

Yeah.
Mines just not quite so fat as the first picture, and the sna dwashes him out a bit, but it looks the same.
He occasionally will swim like a paroon too.
Im in the US BTW

So, do you have photos of the fish you're willing for the site to use by any chance?

The fish in the second picture doesn't have the same big head and does look a but different but the angle makes it hard to really say why.

Jools

Yeah..hang on, i'll try to get some better pics, it's fine if you use any of the ones i posted up (including the behind shot) But the first picture posted, Isn't mine, just a picture I came across. I forgot where i even found it.
Yeah, this guy was pretty skinny in this picture (thank the store for that), but he's been putting on weight, and has a HUGE metabolism, since i got him.
I figured it would be alot less hastle if I just made an account here and tried to help out on a postive ID

[Jeox]

here's better pic's along with a record of his growth / behavior.
better pics are near the bottom on the 1st page
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... ost1490846

[Sandtiger]

Yeah.
Mines just not quite so fat as the first picture, and the sna dwashes him out a bit, but it looks the same.
He occasionally will swim like a paroon too.
Im in the US BTW

So, do you have photos of the fish you're willing for the site to use by any chance?

The fish in the second picture doesn't have the same big head and does look a but different but the angle makes it hard to really say why.

Jools

Yeah..hang on, i'll try to get some better pics, it's fine if you use any of the ones i posted up (including the behind shot) But the first picture posted, Isn't mine, just a picture I came across. I forgot where i even found it.
Yeah, this guy was pretty skinny in this picture (thank the store for that), but he's been putting on weight, and has a HUGE metabolism, since i got him.
I figured it would be alot less hastle if I just made an account here and tried to help out on a postive ID

Thanks for joining up Jeox, I was about to ask you over at the other forum if you would be willing to come here and help out with the details.

[Jeox]

He turns dark grey on top when the lights are out.
Probibly due to the white sand washing him out.

[Richard B]

From this angle it does now look similar to the first photo - the barbel thing seems like the right is shorter than the left ?

[Jeox]

From this angle it does now look similar to the first photo - the barbel thing seems like the right is shorter than the left ?

They're equal length.