Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Kostas · Post by **Kostas** » 02 Sep 2007, 11:51

Congratulations for the spawns racoll!!!

I also like your setups very much,they are perfect for the fish each one houses

The blackwater tinge is beautifull too

How do you manage to keep the water so dark?With peat or with something else?

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 02 Sep 2007, 12:25

How do you manage to keep the water so dark?With peat or with something else?

I use lots of wood and alder (Alnus glutinosa) cones.

Kostas · Post by **Kostas** » 02 Sep 2007, 13:56

Thanks!

That means that my 2meter tank will most likely turn to black water instantly...

Do you buy Alder cones or do you collect them yourself?Here i think it will be difficult to find that trees other than in private gardens...

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 02 Sep 2007, 14:25

I collect mine myself.

The alder is probably found in Greece, but is most likely to be scarce, as it prefers wet conditions. Have a look along river banks.

However I am sure that the half tree you have in your tank will do the job!

Kostas · Post by **Kostas** » 02 Sep 2007, 14:39

Yeah,it may be found but wet forest are far from Athens...Will have a look though next time i visit one of them...

I hope it does...

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 03 Sep 2007, 09:34

racoll wrote:Well they've spawned again (30th Aug).

Assuming it was the same female who spawned first time around on the 7th June, that make the conditioning period about 11 weeks.

I'm pretty sure I have three females and one male, as the same fish broods the eggs, and there where three successive spawnings followed by a period of no activity.

I'm running out of room now...........

I'm sure your LFS can help out on that one, don't you think? .

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 03 Sep 2007, 10:23

Thanks for the offer Mats. I don't know if they would cope with any significant transit at this size though.

They will go to the LFS in the end, but I would like to rear them myself to a saleable size.

By the way, what is a saleable size? When will they be likely to withstand transport and a new life in the big world of the fish shop?

I would rather sell them all privately to be honest, so I know they are going to a good home, but somehow I don't think there will be enough demand.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 03 Sep 2007, 11:31

I have no idea with these fish - but from my experience with Ancistrus sp(3), once they are a above 2-2.5cm (SL), they are fine to transport around and handle. I expect it doesn't make a HUGE amount of difference which species they are, as long as they are otherwise in good condition.

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 28 Oct 2007, 17:49

More eggs today

Now, the fry hatched 4.5 months ago are now about 55mm (not including filament).

Is this too little or about right?

Should I expect more growth?

Also, some of the image links are not working. Is this a PC thing, as they work fine direct?

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 28 Oct 2007, 21:28

R.,
I think you are one of the Pseudohemiodon experts.
R, Trust the Force,. Strong with you, it is.

Seriously, I know the feeling. It is difficult to know when they will be strong enough to endure some time in a shop then able to adjust to another's aquarium not specifically set up for them with the difference in quantity and quality of the care they will get.

I am dealing with this question myself.
I sent six Sturisoma fry to Barbie at a small size but she has the experience and expertise caring for Loricaridid fry. I am making a guess that both your Pseudos and my Sturisoma would be reasonably durable at 3-inches or ~7.5 cm TL.
For something comparable, I bought six L10a when they were little more than 1-3/4 inches TL or 4.5 cm. That was fine for me but my friend bought four and lost them.

Dread · Post by **Dread** » 29 Oct 2007, 11:49

Congrats on the spawns! I'd just like to tell you that I love your tank setups. They're very nicely done! Again, congrats on the spawn and the glorious aquascaping!

Farid · Post by **Farid** » 30 Oct 2007, 20:45

Hi there,
i also had many eggs last year (pseudohemidion laticeps). for the moment they take a brake. i guess european springtime is gona bee more intence...just take care about the youngsters and the net-thing. as the barbels are very tigny they can easily hook in the net. and they harm themselves while trying to release again...i never had any self-experience but i know that thy guy i got mine from never caught any of his pseudohemidion with a net.

Farid

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 31 Oct 2007, 12:46

Congrats on the spawns! I'd just like to tell you that I love your tank setups. They're very nicely done! Again, congrats on the spawn and the glorious aquascaping!

Thank you very much

just take care about the youngsters and the net-thing

They have their own tank now, so the net is no longer in use.

I have also fixed up the photos of the fry tank.

I will add some more soon.....

Seriously, I know the feeling. It is difficult to know when they will be strong enough to endure some time in a shop then able to adjust to another's aquarium not specifically set up for them with the difference in quantity and quality of the care they will get.

This is exactly the problem. I suppose just upping the water temp, feed quantity and water change frequency will get them growing faster and hopefully to a saleable size.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 31 Oct 2007, 15:16

Seriously, I know the feeling. It is difficult to know when they will be strong enough to endure some time in a shop then able to adjust to another's aquarium not specifically set up for them with the difference in quantity and quality of the care they will get.

Racoll:
"This is exactly the problem. I suppose just upping the water temp, feed quantity and water change frequency will get them growing faster and hopefully to a saleable size."

I share your conclusions and that is also what I've been trying.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 09 Jan 2008, 10:20

I hope you have checked out the this month's catfish of the month article. If you haven't, here it is.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/cotm/cotm. ... cle_id=361

If anyone fancies having a go a keeping these really nice whiptails, I have loads of fry going.

I don't really want them languishing at the LFS.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 09 Jan 2008, 10:29

racoll wrote:I hope you have checked out the this month's catfish of the month article.

240 hits since last night!

Jools

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 09 Jan 2008, 10:31

Nice write-up, and as I've stated earlier, I think I can "relieve" you of some of your fry.

--
Mats

Norman · Post by **Norman** » 09 Jan 2008, 10:38

Hi Racoll,

In my opinon the chapter about sexing is not complete.
It is relatively easy to sex mature Pseudohemiodon and near related genera if you will have a look on the genital papilla.
Females have a nearly round and short papilla compared to male specimen which have a longer and pointed papilla.
By this way you can divide the sexes easily.

best regards
Norman

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 09 Jan 2008, 10:53

Norman,

The mouth parts are much easier visual aid though. What would be interseting to note is when does the male start showing signs of change?

Jools

Norman · Post by **Norman** » 09 Jan 2008, 12:27

Hi Jools,

All Pseudohemiodon have no differences in the barbels of the mouth between both sexes.
Just the males of Apistoloricaria species have elongated maxilarbarbels, but the other genera of the subtribe Planiloricariina doesn't have distinct differences of the mouth. I think you mean the genera of the subtribe Loricariichthyna. The males of this subtribe getting a enlarged mouth to the beginning of the breeding season.

best regards
Norman

Richard B · Post by **Richard B** » 09 Jan 2008, 12:57

Racoll

I've followed this thread for a while & have to say you're doing some tremendous work with this species - very well done

I'd love to keep these some time but none of my existing set-ups would be suitable & space is at a premium so no new tanks for me for a while

but this is clearly a beautiful & fascinating species & the CotM article was very good indeed

816johnv · Post by **816johnv** » 09 Jan 2008, 13:39

Oh my god them fry are so cute ,

well done mate and keep it going soon you will be over ran with the little fellas although it looks like you already are over ran lol

good work

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 09 Jan 2008, 14:24

Norman wrote:All
Pseudohemiodon
have no differences in the barbels of the mouth between both sexes.

Norman,

These look quite different to me in that the male (left) has a thickened sides to the suckermouth and fewer, shorter lower lip filament extensions.

Or not?

Jools

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 09 Jan 2008, 14:42

In my opinon the chapter about sexing is not complete.
It is relatively easy to sex mature Pseudohemiodon and near related genera if you will have a look on the genital papilla.
Females have a nearly round and short papilla compared to male specimen which have a longer and pointed papilla.
By this way you can divide the sexes easily.

Indeed, I am sure that you can, but its not something I am confident in doing, so I prefered to leave this out. A lot of mistakes are made in the aquarist literature, mainly from people regurgitating information from other references. I prefer to write from my own experiences and observations. Thanks for the comment though.

All Pseudohemiodon have no differences in the barbels of the mouth between both sexes.

This is what I thought too. But at the last minute, while Jools and I were discussing which species they were, I noticed differences in the mandibular barbels.

MALE

FEMALE

The mandibular barbels appear longer and considerably more developed in the female, while the male has much thicker maxillary barbels. Do you see what I mean?

I agree the photos aren't great, but I shall hook them out again soon and take some more.

Norman · Post by **Norman** » 09 Jan 2008, 15:04

Hi Jools,

I am sorry. I thought you mean the enlargment of the males lips like seen on Loricariichthys or Hemiodontichthys.
The first phase I wrote was not correctly. There are little differences which are not very conspicuous.
I never had seen such thickened maxilarbarbels like those of the male you have shown. The males of all Pseudohemiodon I breed until now, had just slightly thickened maxilarbarbels during the breeding season (not very decisive). The extensions of the lower lip I never analysed, but you are right.

This distincion is just present during the breeding season. The shape of the genital papilla doesn't change on mature specimens.

@racoll:
Just for your understandig: Look at the pictures of Jools. The genial papilla is not clear but you can easily see the differences of both sexes.
Check it out on your specimen. On this way I can differentiate all my (mature) specimen of several species (Pseudohemiodon, Crossoloricaria and Apistoloricaria).

best regards
Norman

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 09 Jan 2008, 15:17

I never had seen such thickened maxilarbarbels like those of the male you have shown. The males of all Pseudohemiodon I breed until now, had just slightly thickened maxilarbarbels during the breeding season (not very decisive).

He was actually sitting on eggs when that picture was taken.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 01 Jul 2008, 23:29

After months of no breeding activity (since October 2007 I think), my Pseudohemiodon have started spawning again around the same date, one year later.

These fish are kept in a cellar with no natural sunlight and the same photoperiod/water parameters day in day out, and yet they must have an inbuilt clock that tells them when to breed. Fascinating.

I think the effect of seasons cannot be underestimated when breeding fish.

Gordon C. Snelling · Post by **Gordon C. Snelling** » 02 Jul 2008, 02:04

Super news shame your not in the states as I would love to help alleviate your over population problems with these fish.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 07 Nov 2008, 00:52

Just to say that Rupert gave the 4 adults to me and they've bred again.

Jools

jopbgon · Post by **jopbgon** » 07 Nov 2008, 01:16

Congratulations!!!! Any pics jools

Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Re: Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Re: Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Re: Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Re: Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Re: Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Re: Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Re: Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Re: Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Re: Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Re: Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Re: Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Re: Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Re: Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Re: Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Re: Pseudohemiodon Spawning

Re: Pseudohemiodon Spawning