pygmaeus breeding

pygmaeus · Post by **pygmaeus** » 16 Dec 2007, 02:27

Quite a while ago I bought 6 C. pygmaeus. Soon after one of them died of what I believed to be some sort of bacterial infection-part of his face or body developed a white patch if I remember correctly, and I think he also had finrot. Two others dissappeared soon after (I neved did find the bodies)and one more that I saw came down with similar symptoms, a white patch on the face and general listlessness. I treated with Melafix and the three remaining ones have been doing great since.

A few months later I spotted some young habrosus at a store and got 6 of them. I ended up losing 4, but to this day am not sure exactly why. The first couple to die started tipping over strangely whenever they sat still. They also became more inactive compared to the others. Later a couple started flashing and so I suspected gill flukes and treated for it. Two more ended up dying. The 2 remaining ones are in a 20long with the 3 pygmaeus and are very fat, happy cories.

If anyone has any ideas what might have caused the "tipping" in some of the habrosus, I'd be interested to know. I posted about it at the time in another forum but no one had any ideas.

The reason for posting though is that when I originally bought the pygmaeus, I was intending to breed them. I've been planning to get a bunch more but keep having to put it off because my q tank has been occupied. So two things I was wondering... 1. The only store that sells pygmaeus has very young, tiny ones that don't look in the greatest health, so I'm wondering if there's anything I should treat them with right away to try to preempt infection (especially after my previous experience with them), and 2. Any tips for getting them to breed. Again they're in a 20long with habrosus (which I will probably also get a few more of), Otos, and shrimp, it has real and fake plants, temp around 75, I feed them Omega One veggie rounds and shrimp pellets. I doubt I'll be able to provide a separate tank for spawning/raising fry, I'm more just wanting to have them spawn in their tank and see if any fry survive.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

worton[pl] · Post by **worton[pl]** » 16 Dec 2007, 08:30

Hey,

it would be really helpful giving us your water parameters like: No3, No2, Ph, filtration and water changes since without this knowledge every diagnosis will be more or less just a blind shooting.

Regards.

pygmaeus · Post by **pygmaeus** » 16 Dec 2007, 21:31

I knew I'd forgotten something...

NH3: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: ~5 (in the main tank...don't remember the exact number in the q tank)
pH: 8 (yeah my tap water's pretty bad)
filtration: sponge filters
water changes: 20% a week

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 16 Dec 2007, 23:02

I use a natural breeding set up for my dwarf Corydoras, C. habrosus and C. hastatus.
A group of 10 to 12 breeders in a 20 long. Thin layer of fine quartz sand, heavy Ceratophyllum growth and a few Anubias attached to bog wood. I also add about 100 hollow ceramic biological media. The fry use these as shelter. I have had them set up this way for 4 or 5 months and now have 40 to 50 Corys of each species in various sizes. I feed mainly earthworm sticks, live black worms and live bbs.
The pH is about 7.5 and TDS ~340 ppm. Two 70% water changes twice a week.

It is hard to say why you lost the Corys you did but they are often quite starved and run down by the time they are sold. I would observe good quarantine along with abundant live foods to build them back up. Just because they are small shouldn't be a problem; they grow fast and can breed at a quite small size. No matter the method, the dwarf Corys will not end up being prolific. Not all laid eggs and newly hatched fry survive. Over a period of time using my approach, I have an ever growing number of dwarf Corys.

pygmaeus · Post by **pygmaeus** » 17 Dec 2007, 04:22

Thanks apistomaster...the set up you have sounds a lot like what I am trying to do.

Do you think my high pH will be a problem? I'd rather not have to adjust it though...

Is my temp (75) ok?

Is there a certain brand of earthworm sticks that's good? And where do you get yours?

pygmaeus · Post by **pygmaeus** » 17 Dec 2007, 05:17

I thought of another question-how low of a temp can pygmaeus take? Would they be ok in an unheated q tank (so room temp, 68-70 in my house)? I'd like to get some more pygmaeus soon but my only spare heater is currently in a q tank with fish I stupidly bought at bad store and they turned out sick...so they're gonna be in the q tank for a long time. And I don't think I can afford another heater. Of course I won't get any if you think room temp is too low for them, but I know some cories do like cooler temps.

worton[pl] · Post by **worton[pl]** » 17 Dec 2007, 19:04

Hey,

imho you should raise temperature to 23-24 C since fungus and rotten fins or too much muccus (cloudy body colours) very often appears on fish when temp. is too low. I have only few times tried my luck with cories so I am not an expert here. That's what I would do with any other fish firstly with your problems.

Second thought (reason why I avoid cories) is source of your fish. In Poland we have mainly fish from Chech Republic (and panda cories which I've tried come only from Chech Republic). Death rate is always very high no matter what you do :(. Sometimes is better to find another shop or fellow aquarist than buying fish again and again to get your dreamed colony.

Regards.

Keithj · Post by **Keithj** » 17 Dec 2007, 19:17

One thing that jumps to mind is ammonia. Accepting your filters may be mature, ammonia is toxic in really tiny amounts once you get above a pH of about 7.5. If you can bring your pH to around 7.0 somehow I think you might do better.

That said, I have problems with C. pygmaeus. C. habrosus and C. hastatus do fine in similar conditions but any pymgies just seem to dwindle.

pygmaeus · Post by **pygmaeus** » 17 Dec 2007, 21:44

worton[pl] wrote:Hey,

imho you should raise temperature to 23-24 C since fungus and rotten fins or too much muccus (cloudy body colours) very often appears on fish when temp. is too low. I have only few times tried my luck with cories so I am not an expert here. That's what I would do with any other fish firstly with your problems.

Second thought (reason why I avoid cories) is source of your fish. In Poland we have mainly fish from Chech Republic (and panda cories which I've tried come only from Chech Republic). Death rate is always very high no matter what you do . Sometimes is better to find another shop or fellow aquarist than buying fish again and again to get your dreamed colony.

Regards.

The tank they're in is 75F=24C.
I was wondering if I could get new ones and put them in an unheated q tank since I don't currently have a spare heater, sorry if that confused you.

There is only one store in my area that sells pygmies and it's normally a good store but for some reason the cories aren't in great shape...but since it's my only place to get them I have to take what I can get.

Keithj--the tank they're in has been established for a couple years, is planted,is understocked, and always tests zero for ammonia, so I don't think that's the issue. The q tank used a filter that had been running in a mature tank for several weeks. The 5 cories I now have have been living in there for quite a while now and no problems...all of the losses I had were immediately after buying them. I'm thinking all my initial losses were just a matter of poor care/disease at the store...

When you say habrosus and hastatus do well in "similar conditions" are you referring to my water chemistry? If that's the case maybe it would be better for me to try to set up a breeding group of habrosus instead of pygmaeus...I'd rather not try to change my pH.

Keithj · Post by **Keithj** » 17 Dec 2007, 22:19

The similar conditions I was talking about were mine, rather than yours. I don't condition water for any tank differently so they all end up around pH7. My GH is 16 degrees and my KH is around 3 degrees so I would have trouble changing it deliberately. My habrosus and hastatus are in a 60x30x30cm tank next to a 60x30x45cm tank with the pygmaeus in it. I've no idea why one tank does well with miniature species while the other doesn't. Both tanks contain other cory species that are doing well so the losses of pygmaeus are a mystery.

pygmaeus · Post by **pygmaeus** » 17 Dec 2007, 23:00

Ah I see. Well, my water is super hard so I don't think I could lower the pH much if I wanted to...

That's strange your habrosus and hastatus are doing well but not your pygmaeus. You don't have any idea why that might be?

pygmaeus · Post by **pygmaeus** » 19 Dec 2007, 00:23

Another question...would it work to breed both pygmaeus and habrosus in the same tank (theoretically)?

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 19 Dec 2007, 00:57

pygmaeus wrote:Another question...would it work to breed both pygmaeus and habrosus in the same tank (theoretically)?

I have done this with C habrosus and C. hastatus.

I believe fresh water and temps of 76*F to 89*F will be better. I think your C. pygmeus will be able to breed in your tap water although I also think diluting it with RO water would improve your results. Half and half is what I would try if no joy as is.
C. pygmeus is usually quite hardy once they have recovered from all the transit stresses and have acclimated to your water.

pygmaeus · Post by **pygmaeus** » 19 Dec 2007, 21:26

Up to 89 degrees!? Geez I didn't realize they could take it that warm!

What would you say is the ideal temp for them?

I don't think it's possible for me to get RO water...anyway the 5 cories that made it have been living very happily in my plain tap water. But what's the effect of a high pH and hardness on breeding? Does it decrease the number of fry you get or could it prevent them from breeding at all?

Keithj · Post by **Keithj** » 19 Dec 2007, 22:01

It's been found that water conditions affect the hatch itself, rather than anything else, and that the fry can't break out of the shell if they're too far away from the ideal. I read recently, though, of someone who had this problem in the first few spawns but that later spawns seemed to handle the conditions better.

Corys can cope with very different conditions, it has to be said. My C-89s were bred in very soft, acid water yet they spawn well and I've had good hatching rates under my normal conditions. Sometimes you just have to let Mother Nature have her way. ;)

pygmaeus · Post by **pygmaeus** » 19 Dec 2007, 22:06

Keithj wrote:It's been found that water conditions affect the hatch itself, rather than anything else, and that the fry can't break out of the shell if they're too far away from the ideal. I read recently, though, of someone who had this problem in the first few spawns but that later spawns seemed to handle the conditions better.

I thought I'd heard something along those lines about hatch rate before. Well, I'll just see how they do in my tap water. It's not like I've got tons of room for them anyway, so a lower hatch rate could actually be a good thing for me....