synodontis eupterus

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 02 Dec 2007, 03:10

Hello.

I have two itty bitty ones of these. They are approximately just prob shy of 2 inches from nose to end of back fin. very cute!

I have been reading as much as I can about about them for about 7 months now and intended to get some one day and a big tank for them. Well they were suddenly at the fish store and I had never ever seen any locally and I have never ordered fish via mail before so I bought two. They are happy and eating. I am planning on getting them a 75 gal tank. Is that correct?

So far they eat frozen bloodworms & shrimp, sinking shrimp pellets and sinking canivore pellets. They also like the Omega One veggie flakes with kelp and spirulina, but I have to soak those to get them to sink. They do not like the sinking veggie rounds or the sinking catfish wafers.

So I am asking on tank size and whatever other foods I can try. Thanks.

p.s. they are so cute with their whiskers and eyes! I know what they will look like when they grow up and I still think they will be cutie pies, also i know they can be from 4" to 12". I was thinking of having the two of them alone in the 75 gal, unless u have suggestions or think I can add one more. Thank you for reading.

Post by **Birger** » 02 Dec 2007, 03:42

These guys should eat just about anything.
Two is a bad number as one will dominate the other, I personally try to have at least five with syno's when I can, aggression is spread and interaction is much more interesting, you may have to adjust the size of the tank accordingly(75 gal or more if possible).
They will grow fast so get your preparations under way soon if they are in a smaller tank.

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 02 Dec 2007, 04:22

I was afraid of that, re two. I have read and read and read and lots of diff answers re how many.

Yes they are in a too small tank rt now. It's just temp but its a 10 gal. They each have their own cave structure and seem to be o.k. But I have noticed my first one, who I got 4 days prior, he will sometimes go in the others cave and not let him in. But usually they are fine, just swimming and hanging around upside down.

My question is if it is just syno eupterus' how many in the 75? Solo occupants, no other fish. Can I put three? I kinda wanted just two but I guess that's bad. But if there is room for three that's great! There are some more babies same size at the store. I don't think I can go bigger then 75 rt now. 75 is intimadating enough. Right now I have three other ten gals. Each with one male betta, a 20 tall, 9 betta females and a 20 long 12 peppered cories. So a 75 is kinda scary. I will have to get a python hose thing for to attach to the sink and I 've never done that. I am with buckets and dechlorinating and aging water right now.

They are eating thawed tubifex worms as we speak, the synos. They seem to like those.

Colin Keightley · Post by **Colin Keightley** » 02 Dec 2007, 11:28

I would certainly listen to birger when he says keep them in numbers as I have only 3 and this has led to one dominant fish which picks on the others and has grew very fast. The weakest has grew very little and has been worrying me for some time now. The smalest one is maturing in the way of its colouring and fins but not in size and then there is one in between which sometimes puts up a fight. all 3 were 1.5" when I bought them in february they are now 5" 4" and 2.5"

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 02 Dec 2007, 21:19

so two is bad and three is bad? How many can go in a 75 gal? I 'm getting very nervous about this.

I will just see, I will get the tank, first and foremost, then set it up.

I have learned alot about them by reading on line but everyone has them in dif tank sizes and in diff amounts.

bslindgren · Post by **bslindgren** » 03 Dec 2007, 01:06

I had two, and they are now in a 120 gal where they occupy opposite ends of the tank. I had the same issue - one of them was a bully, but I had lots of bogwood and plants so there was never any real problems. It sounds as if the numbers issue is similar to loaches - four seems to work reasonably well, but five or six is better. And the main advantage is more interesting interactions. They are beautiful fish for sure, but I'm trying to get nigriventis instead. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find them in the trade, and someone in Britain commented recently (might have been on loaches online) that they never occur there either. Does anyone know why? Or is it just a local problem, i.e. they are available if you live in the right place?

Post by **Birger** » 03 Dec 2007, 02:14

bslindgren, about S.nigriventris.... I see them quite often in Calgary, they may even ship to you, PM me if interested I will tell you where. They are a personal favorite of mine for some reason.

andywoolloo,If the size and numbers of these fish is becomeing an issue for you there are some interesting other syno's that do not get quite as large, granted these are a showy fish when swimming about and throw in a shoal of something, say Phenacogrammus interruptus(congo tetra) it would make a great display so do not give up on the idea yet.

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 03 Dec 2007, 04:37

thank you so much Birger! I was getting discouraged like I had done something wrong and with no way to rectify it. I already feel bad for getting them before I had their tank. I tried not to but week after week they were in the tank at the fish store and no one was taking them and finally I couldnt take it anymore.

I def don't want to give up, I love the featherfin synos! And they are so small right now I just thought I had more time to get them into their permanent 75 gal.

Syno_Eupterus. · Post by **Syno_Eupterus.** » 03 Dec 2007, 16:46

Hello...

I'm also keeping two baby syno. euppies ( my nick name for the species)
I have three older adults and I always wished I had gotten more right off. Too much pecking order issues. I thought it meant they were very territorial and I couldn't add any more at the time. They didn't kill each other, what I do have is one looking prettier and more full then the other two.

I see them as cichlid like as in they like company AND they like their personal space.

Not sure about tank size. Do realize they will get more aggressive as they get older and lay claim to their own hidey places. My alpha syno laid claim to the best cave I put in and chases off other fish.

So probably want to make sure there's more then one hidey place because they don't share well.

Colin Keightley · Post by **Colin Keightley** » 03 Dec 2007, 17:47

andywoolloo wrote:I just thought I had more time to get them into their permanent 75 gal.

Mine were about 1.5" when I got them and the largest is now 5" I have had them for 9 month now so unless mine are growing very slow then I would say you do have time as mine are comfortable for now in a 3 foot 110 Litre tank.

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 04 Dec 2007, 00:09

ok sounds good! Does anyone keep the malaysian trumpet snails in their syno tanks? Cause I have MTS's in my cories tank and there is plenty to put in the syno tank? For to stir up the sand and all?

Or will the synos eat them and get a belly ache?

Also what about Boyds Vita chem for freshwater fish? I got some and have used it in my betta tanks and cory tanks, can I add to the syno tank? It's a once a week thing like flourish for the plants? Oh and also what about Flourish supplement for the syno tank is that ok? Cause they have amazon swords?

Richard B · Post by **Richard B** » 04 Dec 2007, 13:50

Your supplement for plants should be fine but as with all additives treat according to instructions.

I have MTS in with my tanganyikan synos & everything is fine - i'm pretty certain some are eaten but that's not a concern for me & the syno's are fine. They do have really hard shells so maybe eupterus wouldn't touch them(?) - mostly this depends on how well you feed them to begin with.

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 05 Dec 2007, 00:10

thank u all very much for helping me.

I will try to get some pictures. But mostly they are upside down in their caves. But I scope them out and their bellies are not flat, softly rounded. But not too much.

This morning before their lights came on I spied on them and they were sitting side by side munching on a pellet!

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 05 Dec 2007, 02:33

Here are some pictures of Max & Jack. They are elusive little devils!

I was in the room and saw them swimming all over the tank and then when I came back with the camara they were perched upside down in their caves.

But this is the best I could get so far.

This is Max, you can barely see him back there.

This is Jack:

p.s. sorry should I move these pics to tank talk? But they aren't in their real tank yet? Sorry If I shouldn't put pics here.

Syno_Eupterus. · Post by **Syno_Eupterus.** » 06 Dec 2007, 01:19

Aweee....they look like mine.One of mine is perched in a rock arch like that.

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 06 Dec 2007, 02:27

are ours the same age! I am excited to get them into a bigger tank. Altho i feel they will kind of freaked out by the size just the two of them!

Are urs doing better from their move?

Mine are so funny! sometimes when i come in they keep doing whatever they are doing and sometimes they jam under their caves. if I sneak up on them like a ninja I can see them wandering around and whiskering each other. They really use those whisks!!

Do you feed urs once a day? What temp do u keep them? So far i feed them when I turn off their tank light before I go to work, I work night. And when I get home its all gone. Unless it's a veggie round or a hikari sinking wafer. They let those sit and puff up. They are all about the shrimp pellets and sinking carnivore pellets and whatever frozen food. Bloodworms and shrimp so far. I kinda thought they might eat veggies, but unk what to try. I have them at 76-78 rt now cause I read when they are younger they need it warmer? I wonder if that's rt?

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 06 Dec 2007, 23:12

What do you all think is best for the sand for the eupterus? the dark black sand or the light white sand?

My cories have the black tahitian moon sand and they love it. It is a little hard to see them against it though?

So just wondering for my tank for the synos. Black or light? Hmmm. If darker makes them feel more comfortable I will go with that.

It would be nice to have a light sand bottom and see how that is. Or a mixture of black and sand coloured.

***ETA*** i decided to mix tahition moon sand and midnight white sand both carib sea. It looks interesting. Kind of gray swirly? Also I got an Eheim Ecco cannister filter model 2236? is this ok on a 75? It looks like a mini version of our pool pump? Very interesting.

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 09 Dec 2007, 22:37

is it ok that my synos only like sinking shrimp pellets or frozen food?

They won't eat the sinking hikari wafers or the sinking veggie rounds. And I do not even think they like the sinking canivore pellets? I gave them some cooked peas today with the shells off. We'll see?

What real veggies woudl they eat if any?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 10 Dec 2007, 13:06

These fish won't take much interest in vegetables, as far as I know [I haven't kept them myself, but the Cat-eLog page certainly indicates a more meaty diet, and most Syno's are more carnivores than herbivores].

I expect they'd take something like Tetra Prima [aka Tetra Bits, Tetra Discus].

--
Mats

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 11 Dec 2007, 02:36

They ate some peas, but so did the Malaysian trumpet snails so unknown how many the synos ate.

So far the babys cats like sinking shrimp pellets, and all frozen foods. Not so much anything else.

I put in 4 shrimp pellets at a time, at dark. So two for each? Is that enough? And when I defrost them shrimp or bloodworms I give them half a cube? Is that enough? The bigger bossier one has a more rounded tummy then the other. But he has a tummy too. Just not as big.

They look so small in the 75. They roam the tank together and swim upside down and right side up all over.

Syno_Eupterus. · Post by **Syno_Eupterus.** » 11 Dec 2007, 03:17

Spoiled lil synos if they have a 75 gal to themselves.

Post by **Birger** » 11 Dec 2007, 04:31

Spoiled little syno's indeed, it's great you have your 75 up and running already.

I do not want to preach to you but now is a good time to get some more,they can grow up together in an established pecking order.

What are your plans (if any) for other inhabitants ?

I have never kept eupterus but I do have some midsize angelicus and they rip (quite literally,biting big chunks)) into the zuchini and green beans I put in the tank for some ancistrus that are also in with them, wouldn't be surprised if your eupterus started to do the same as they get older if the vegies are in the tank.

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 11 Dec 2007, 06:31

i was afraid to post it in case it was wrong cause im so confused with how many i can have but I am off to the fish store when i get up tomorrow and hope they have more left!! Its the only time ive seen them locally since june when i first knew what they were, and i thought id have to order them on line and i was scared to open a box of possibly dead fish so that's why I snabbed these two!!

I was thinking for sure one more but maybe two? Is four ok?

do u cook the zuchinni and green beans first? Peel the zuchinni skin?

I am so excited I can have some more !! And I love how the sand mixed together, the black and white, its like mottled gray, kinda like them!!

Also I didn't plan on any diff inhabitants in the tank, just maybe two more synos? Is that o.k.? Or will they be bored?

Colin Keightley · Post by **Colin Keightley** » 11 Dec 2007, 21:57

This may not be correct but from my experience of keeping a mixed tank they are very inquisitive but they will bully any fish smaller than themselves. but this useually only goes as far as nudging other fish out of the way

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 11 Dec 2007, 23:58

Cort and Ben have joined Max and Jack in the 75.

Post by **Birger** » 12 Dec 2007, 05:06

do u cook the zuchinni and green beans first? Peel the zuchinni skin?

I just slice the zuchini then stick a small fork through the skin with a length of fishing line tied on to pull it out again.
Green beans I usually just drop in a couple of pieces depending on how many fish, sometimes I have to give them a squeeze so they will sink, when my angelicus were smaller they would sneak in grab a bean seed from the center and take off and find a place to munch on it, the veggies may not really be necessary but is a bit of a treat for them now.
Again I am not sure if the eupterus will eat these but doesn't hurt to try.

Also I didn't plan on any diff inhabitants in the tank, just maybe two more synos? Is that o.k.? Or will they be bored?

It's more what you want, you could easily add a few active fish in the upper layer, it also can make the cats more at ease when they see other fish swimming around...one problem with catfish is they have a way of disappearing especially when you are trying to show them off so you need to provide a fish that the less patient friends can see or they just think you keep an empty tank.

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 12 Dec 2007, 06:25

Yes Colin, they do alot of nudging! At first it was Max nudging Jack out of his house, now it's Cort nudging Max and jack out of their nooks an crannies! :rofl

They do not seem to fight attack like my betta girls just push and bump. Ben and Cort are together always and now Max and Jack are next to each other. But it's only day one of them all four being together. And I am certain, pretty certain that Max, Cort and Ben are all brothers. They came from same store same shipment of 8. Jack came from another store and he was alone in a tank.

It's kinda wierd to see Max and Jack so close now. Kinda like us against them. And it was so cool when I added Jack cause max was first then Max whiskered Jack. Now Cort and Ben whiskered Jack and Max.

They have a total of 10 different hiding places/overhangs in the tank. So the four of them should be able to work some thing out. Cort and Ben are way more outgoing then Max and Jack ever were. They are all over the tank and don't give a dang for hiding when u walk up to the tank?

Maybe they will teach my first two to be brave?

Birger,

I will def try the green beans and the zuchinni. I tried green beans with my cories and the snails loved them but cories were all.. wheres the meat?

Also I originally wanted to do the mbuna tank with the synos but that maybe too much for me. I could never make it look as nice as some tanks I have seen. And I do not do well with multi species tanks. That's why I gave my cories their own tank. I was always worrying over if they were getting enough food or not?

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 17 Dec 2007, 03:13

I tried the green beans. The snails were very happy. I think the synos did eat some for sure.

I have another question.

I know ..big surprise.

Since there are 4 of them, only, in the tank, how much should I be giving them?

I feed them when their tank lights go off before i leave for work at approx 1630 hrs. On the days they get frozen food I give them a whole cube of whatever it is? I'm thinking I need to give them 2 cubes cause when I peek in a few minutes IT IS ALL GONE!!!

When I give them sinking pellets I give them approx 6 at a feeding and when I peek back minutes later, all gone?

I try to divide the food around the tank so the bigger ones cant scap it all up?

**ETA** also they now like the sinking canivore pellets alot! At first they did not.

Post by **Birger** » 17 Dec 2007, 04:04

I think the synos did eat some for sure.

It takes a while for them to figure out the veggies

thinking I need to give them 2 cubes cause when I peek in a few minutes IT IS ALL GONE!!!

When I give them sinking pellets I give them approx 6 at a feeding and when I peek back minutes later, all gone?

It should only be a matter of minutes....doesn't matter how much you put in they will try to eat as much as they can as fast as they can, you do not want them looking like they swallowed a marble and of coarse you do not want them too skinny only you can make that call, keep in mind most people feed too much...and I don't exclude myself

I try to divide the food around the tank so the bigger ones cant scap it all up?

Good plan, sounds like they are happy

Birger

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 17 Dec 2007, 07:08

k, sounds good, thanks! I will continue to attempt to scope out their tummies for fullness.