720 liter pleco, discus and tetra tank

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 04 Nov 2007, 17:24

Haarvard,
As long as we are the subject of discus, here are some photos of some of my other wild discus.

Another view of the Heckels and their tank.

Seedy · Post by **Seedy** » 04 Nov 2007, 20:23

Wow, those are some funny looking catfish!

Really though, I like all the wood and design so far. The metal scares me, but you said it was "acid resistant" so I guess it's safe.

Are you going to do an Amano style planting in that tank with with lots of java moss and such covering all the wood?

Gonna be awesome either way.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 04 Nov 2007, 21:47

Quality stainless steel is quite safely used in contact with aquarium water.

In tank talk it's Ok to talk about non-catfish topics.
Catfish are often kept in community tanks, even in those with the "pancake" shaped fish.

I prefer using a large Bushy nose for my primary algae eater and some Hypancistrus species or L134 Leopard Frog Peckoltia with Discus instead of Corydoras.
The latter like the same warm temperatures and foods that Discus eat. I believe one Hypancistrus easily equals the "vacuuming" abilities of four Corydoras and they do better at Discus temperatures than any Corydoras species, better than even C. sterbai .

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 04 Nov 2007, 21:47

Great looking discus Apisto.

I plan not to use moss or any other plant, but I may change my mind about that.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 04 Nov 2007, 21:54

I just use a couple of large Echinodoras bleheri Sword plants in plastic containers concealed in the deep substrate in the back half of that discus tank. This comes in handy if I have to catch fish because I can temporarily remove the sword plants. It also allows me to concentrate timed release substrate fertilizers within only the plants' pots.

Plants aren't necessary nor even natural in the sense of matching the biotope of Discus. I just like a little live greenery and I think a few plants can contribute to water quality.

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 04 Nov 2007, 22:02

I´m not sure about plants, I want the tank to look very real, and I often feel that plants disturb this picture. I love plants by the way

These are the discus I photographed at Mortens place tonight. This is not the exact pair, but they look exactly the same.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 04 Nov 2007, 22:09

Hi Haarvad,
They look like Blue Discus.
Whether a discus is Blue or Brown is a subjective and arbitrary decision. I agree with Heiko Bleher that they are one and the same species. Only the extent of the blue determines whether it falls into your personal opinion of what it should be called.

For me, a Blue should have at least, fairly extensive blue striations about its head, upper back and lower back third of it's body including the anal fin.

Browns may have little blue or mostly some about the head and unpaired fins with very little blue striation through their body.

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 04 Nov 2007, 22:31

I have no idea... Not my field really;)

I like their subtle coloration, and they are nicely shaped and healthy.

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 04 Nov 2007, 22:33

By the way Apisto..

What internet places do you recommend on wild discus straines?

Dread · Post by **Dread** » 05 Nov 2007, 01:06

If you mean to learn about Wild Strains, check out http://www.simplydiscus.com . As for buying them.. I'll leave that to ApistoMaster.

Plecofanatic1989 · Post by **Plecofanatic1989** » 05 Nov 2007, 06:25

Both of your Hemiancistrus tanks are awesome. Seeing how you build your tanks and make them so beautiful and real looking has inspired me to want to try to make similar setups... if only I had the money

. It's obvious you put a lot of thought and work into your tanks. Keep it up. I can't wait to see the finished project.

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 05 Nov 2007, 11:24

Yeah! It can be an expensive hobby. This year I have used all my vacation money on equipment.

The tank is nearly finished. I may start to add sand this week.

About discus strains... As I understand it the simplest way of catagorizing them are:
-Heckel
-Haraldi(blue)
-Green
-Brown

The discus I will buy are called Brown by the keeper. Apisto says they look more like Haraldi (blue) and I agree for what it´s worth.

Maybee the best thing would be to use exact location of capture instead of all the fancy names on wild discus. Kind of like the system we use on Poeciliids. Country-state/province-river-more exact part of the river etc.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 05 Nov 2007, 16:01

There are three recognized species of wild discus with their correct scientific names currently in debate.
There are many variations within every Discus population of everyone of the three species although the Heckel Discus, Symphysodon discus is the most consistent in appearance. The wide variations found in the natural population provided a rich resource of different traits that have been developed into many "strains" of domestic discus. Most were derived from the Blue/Browns but Green discus and their hybridization has played a role in the creation of some of the domestic strains=varieties available today.

The two different ideas on the natural wild species goes like this:
Heiko Bleher's proposal.
Symphysodon discus The Heckel Discus

Symphysodon haraldi Brown/Blue Discus

Symphysodon aequifasciatus Green Discus
-------------------------------------------
Kullander and others proposal.
Symphysodon discus The Heckel Discus

Symphysodon aequifasciatus Brown/Blue Discus

Symphysodon tarzoo Green Discus
--------------------------------------------
"Strains" more properly refers to the selectively bred varieties of domesticated discus.
It is sometimes used as a way to distinguish members of the same species with distinctive characteristics found on some specimens from a particular part of the range of the species. It is usually used so loosely and often with place names where discus are not even found so as to become meaningless. One great example are the famous Discus from the Rio Madeira, a great. large, muddy river, devoid of Discus.
According to Heiko Bleher, Bleher's Discus Vol. 1, 2006, the Alenquer type of Brown is not really found at the place name location but rather the Rio Curua', the Boca region, or Cuipeua'. Heiko collected and inroduced them to aquarists so he ought know.
This sort of thing is pervasive among discus keepers.
We don't collect our fish. Collectors don't tell us where they actually find their fish; they have competitors, so many of the location types that are commonly accepted as fact by discus keepers are inventions; nonsense.

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 05 Nov 2007, 20:59

So both "schools" say that brown and blue are the same, but the amount of blue varies, thus we call them brown or blue? Makes sence.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 05 Nov 2007, 21:28

Hi Haavard,
That is the story in a nutshell.

jopbgon · Post by **jopbgon** » 08 Nov 2007, 01:02

How's everything going on

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 08 Nov 2007, 02:06

Yesterday I filled it with water. Today I added sand. I will photograph when the dust settles.

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 08 Nov 2007, 07:57

I've always done it in another order: first sand, and than water.

I wonder what advantages your way has?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 08 Nov 2007, 10:40

Bas Pels wrote:I've always done it in another order: first sand, and than water.

I wonder what advantages your way has?

I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps it prevents air-bubbles under the sand [and it certainly prevents the sand from being "moved" by the flow of water into the tank].

--
Mats

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 08 Nov 2007, 11:29

The sand is from another tank full of sandsnails. I cleaned the sand and boiled it to kill all the snails. I figured it was smart to put water in before the boiling hot sand. Otherwise the heat could stress the glass or soften the silicon.

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 08 Nov 2007, 12:27

Yesss

if you use 100 degree sand, than you better cool it before it touches the tank,i think

Kostas · Post by **Kostas** » 08 Nov 2007, 14:01

This tank too is wonderfull Haavard!!!

I like it very much,although i would put wood on the right side too...It would fill better...
Looking forward for pictures with water and sand in

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 08 Nov 2007, 15:51

Hi Haavard,
If you want to have the most comprehensive information about wild discus get Heiko Bleher's new book, Bleher's Discus Vol 1, 2006.
Every known Discus is shown,it's exact location, water conditions and history. Also ton of information about Amazonian fish habitats in general. No one has ever provided so much information before. The photos tend to make you wish you had a 100 big tanks and a fortune to collect the all variations shown of the three species of Discus.
Bleher collected and supplied the majority of the best wild discus to the best breeders who used them to create the modern fancy discus over the past four decades.

Morten · Post by **Morten** » 08 Nov 2007, 20:18

Hi Haavard,

Another great setup this one.

You never stop surprising with your work.

Have to agreed with Kostas, think the tank would be even more outstanding with some more wood on the right side.

Looking forward for more pictures.

jopbgon · Post by **jopbgon** » 09 Nov 2007, 02:18

Cant wait to see the tank finished

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 12 Nov 2007, 16:55

The tank is filled with water and local sea sand.

The fx5 in and outlets on the left side are just temporary. I need to cycle the fx5 for another tank.

At the moment I keep 5 L106 Two L200 "hi fin"and 5 L128s. On Thursday I will get 10 L264. The purpose of the tank will be to house a lot of plecos unntil they are large enough to attemt breeding in other smaller tanks. It is simply a growout tank.

The discus purchase will have to wait indefinetely because of illness on the fish. I may have to buy from another source.

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 12 Nov 2007, 19:05

Wow, a splendid tank.

If it was mine, I would add 2 plants: 1 thin vallisneria, on 1/3 from the left, halfway from the front, near the curve inwards o nthe second peice of wood - just to increase the deepnes, and a big Echionodorus to fill the very emlty room on the right

jopbgon · Post by **jopbgon** » 12 Nov 2007, 19:25

Wow

.....A...W...E...S...O...M...E

Haavard Stoere · Post by **Haavard Stoere** » 12 Nov 2007, 20:03

Thank you jopbgon

Bas Pels wrote:Wow, a splendid tank.

If it was mine, I would add 2 plants: 1 thin vallisneria, on 1/3 from the left, halfway from the front, near the curve inwards o nthe second peice of wood - just to increase the deepnes, and a big Echionodorus to fill the very emlty room on the right

I sort of agree that plants would look nice, but I will use the tank a lot to photograph fish, and I feel that plants in the frame tend to disturb the image. Maybee I change my mind later. First I have to finish aquascaping with wood and rocks.

Morten · Post by **Morten** » 12 Nov 2007, 21:17

Looking great Haavard, the last added wood did the job.
In my opinion, the tank now looking very natural, hopefully you wont add to much rock into this marvellous aquarium.