Miniature catfish Burmese miniature Hara?

marge618 · Post by **marge618** » 23 Oct 2007, 17:57

Hi! First post on this forum. I am looking for information on some really tiny catfish.(Burmese miniature Hara just the first one I heard about.) I was told in another forum that miniatures would be good tank mates for either apistos, ottos or red coral shrimp. Any suggestions are welcome.
Marge

Post by **medaka** » 23 Oct 2007, 19:23

HI Marge

and welcome to Planet Catfish

The Burmese miniature Hara, that usually turns up it the shops are Hara filamentosa; re: Ng & Kottelat 2007. (syn: Hara maesotensis). These are quite unassuming often shy, catfish; that in my experience don't do too well with boisterous tank mates, IMHO Apistogramma 'sp' would be to territorial and agressive for mothcats (Hara's).
I had a pair of Apistogramma 'sp.' maulbruter housed in a 8 gallon (UK) tank, and whilst I was trying to make tank space available for another of my breeding projects, I moved 2 Hara longissima into the maulbruter tank, even though I rearranged the decor, so that the apisto's were disorientated, and therefore effectively in a new environment, the apisto's didn't take to kindly to sharing this space with the mothcats and I was forced to remove them some 60 hrs later, as there were clear sighs of them being attacked.
Mothcats seem to get along fine with danio's like Danio choprae and Danio kerri and any of the small Rasbora's.
Sorry

can't say about the shrimps though, not kept any.

worton[pl] · Post by **worton[pl]** » 23 Oct 2007, 19:48

Hey,

I keep Hara jerdoni with freshwater shrimps (red cherry I guess) without problem. Haras are able to eat only very tiny shrimps (mature shrimps can handle little catfish without problem) and population of shrimps is growing nicely.

Regards.

marge618 · Post by **marge618** » 24 Oct 2007, 12:34

worton[pl] wrote:Hey,

I keep Hara jerdoni with freshwater shrimps (red cherry I guess) without problem. Haras are able to eat only very tiny shrimps (mature shrimps can handle little catfish without problem) and population of shrimps is growing nicely.

Regards.

How big are these catfish. Are they referred to as pigmy cats?
Thanks
Marge

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 24 Oct 2007, 15:50

I would also have thought that Hara will require much lower temperatures than most Apistogramma will be comfortable with.

marge618 · Post by **marge618** » 24 Oct 2007, 16:33

worton[pl] wrote:Hey,

I keep Hara jerdoni with freshwater shrimps (red cherry I guess) without problem. Haras are able to eat only very tiny shrimps (mature shrimps can handle little catfish without problem) and population of shrimps is growing nicely.

Regards.

Thanks for the info. the Hara jerdoni sound like a good choice. Are they shy? How many?
Marge

marge618 · Post by **marge618** » 24 Oct 2007, 16:35

racoll wrote:I would also have thought that Hara will require much lower temperatures than most Apistogramma will be comfortable with.

These are my first Apistos also.... Which catfish would you keep with the Apistos?
Thanks
Marge

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 24 Oct 2007, 18:10

I keep with mine, but perhaps a warmer water , or a plec such as ?

Basically anything that likes warm (25-29C) soft acid water and won't eat the Apistos will be fine.

You will have to watch out for aggression from the Apistos in a small tank (as Medaka has already mentioned), but in a big tank anything goes really.

Many catfish will eat Apisto fry though

Post by **medaka** » 24 Oct 2007, 23:13

I would also have thought that Hara will require much lower temperatures than most Apistogramma will be comfortable with.

As general rule of thumb, I agree that Erethistini on the whole like lower temperatures than Apistogramma species, However, earlier this year my fish house ambient temperature was 25-26 degree's Celsius, and as well having as my Apistogramma maulbruter and Apistogramma eremnopyge's spawn, my Erethistes pusillus also spawned.

Post by **Silurus** » 24 Oct 2007, 23:39

I always thought the Burmese miniature hara were H. minuscula, not H. filamentosa. The sizes at which H. filamentosa are being exported does not really fit the term “miniature”.

Post by **medaka** » 25 Oct 2007, 00:38

HI HH

The ones that you describe as Hara filamentosa in your joint work with prof Kottelat, the ones I first spawned a few years ago AKA Erethistes maesotensis,
have entered the UK as Burmese mini mouth cats, Burmese rock cats, Burmese mothcats, Erethistes maesotensis, Hara maesotensis. To be honest although all these match your description of H filametosa I have yet to see one of these at the size that you and Prof Kottelat claim they reach.

Post by **Silurus** » 25 Oct 2007, 02:02

Here are the differences between H. filamentosa and H. minuscula:

1. The head of H. filamentosa is evenly sloping, while that of H. minuscula is somewhat domed.

2. Hara filamentosa frequently (but not always) possess a long caudal-fin filament. Hara minuscula never does.

I have seen both species at the same time at transshipment facilities here. The H. filamentosa specimens were always much bigger (about 3–4 times bigger) than H. minuscula.

Post by **medaka** » 07 Nov 2007, 20:16

Hi HH

It seems also that there is a difference in adipose fin, between the two; the posterior edge being more vertical in minuscula.
Or is just how the specimen is possitioned?

So basically this then is Hara minuscula?

Post by **Silurus** » 07 Nov 2007, 23:14

Yes, it is.

marge618 · Post by **marge618** » 08 Nov 2007, 03:56

worton[pl] wrote:Hey,

I keep Hara jerdoni with freshwater shrimps (red cherry I guess) without problem. Haras are able to eat only very tiny shrimps (mature shrimps can handle little catfish without problem) and population of shrimps is growing nicely.

Regards.

Hara jerdoni sound interesting. Especially with the red cherry shrimps. I am going to look at these little catfish more closely. Thanks, Marge

marge618 · Post by **marge618** » 08 Nov 2007, 04:01

racoll wrote:I keep
Tatia perugiae
with mine, but perhaps a warmer water
Corydoras
,
Bunocephalus coracoideus
or a plec such as
Farlowella
?

Basically anything that likes warm (25-29C) soft acid water and won't eat the Apistos will be fine.

You will have to watch out for aggression from the Apistos in a small tank (as Medaka has already mentioned), but in a big tank anything goes really.

Many catfish will eat Apisto fry though

Well, do the Hara eat the Apisto fry? Though I just got my first Apisto I am looking forward to having fry in the future...
Marge

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 08 Nov 2007, 14:56

marge618 wrote:
racoll wrote:I keep
Tatia perugiae
with mine, but perhaps a warmer water
Corydoras
,
Bunocephalus coracoideus
or a plec such as
Farlowella
?

Basically anything that likes warm (25-29C) soft acid water and won't eat the Apistos will be fine.

You will have to watch out for aggression from the Apistos in a small tank (as Medaka has already mentioned), but in a big tank anything goes really.

Many catfish will eat Apisto fry though
Well, do the Hara eat the Apisto fry? Though I just got my first Apisto I am looking forward to having fry in the future...
Marge

I don't know about Hara species but I did try to keep a new batch of free swimming Apistogramma cauctuoides with my large adult breeding group of Corydoras sterbai which ate all but 3 of ~80 fry over night.
The fry had been free swimming for seven days at the time I moved them into the C. sterbai tank.