Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members?

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 16 Sep 2007, 21:12

I agree this is my favorite thread, although I really am becoming a plecophile.

Matt

Kattes · Post by **Kattes** » 19 Sep 2007, 11:20

I've been obsessed with L. oncinus ever since I first saw them some seven years ago. I've now got eleven of them, five in the oscar tank, six in a tank dedicated stricly for them (although there's room for more Auchenipteridids species...). I've seen some very possible breeding activity in the oscar tank, unfortunaly not in the species tank, even though I've tried to duplicate the conditions in the oscar tank.

I'd also be more than interested in getting more Auchenipteridids, but they're pretty rare in this part of the world. I'm planning a trip to Germany or Netherlands during next winter if I could find some Trachelyopterus fisheri, Trachelyopterus galeatus or Trachelyopterichthys taeniatus.

Kattes · Post by **Kattes** » 19 Sep 2007, 11:29

-please delete this, I screwed up

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 19 Sep 2007, 13:34

Kattes wrote:I'd also be more than interested in getting more Auchenipteridids, but they're pretty rare in this part of the world. I'm planning a trip to Germany or Netherlands during next winter if I could find some Trachelyopterus fisheri, Trachelyopterus galeatus or Trachelyopterichthys taeniatus. Or anything else interesting..

If you're seriously thinking of coming to the Netherlands, I could provide you with some Auchenipterids, namely , and .
I wouldn't mind you bringing along one male L .oncinus. My two girls are getting bored

.
I'm certainly not promoting myself, but the chances of finding Auchenipterids in the Netherlands are very rare and even the German shops I visit (mostly Nord Rhein Westfalen) don't seem to stock them anymore.
For guaranteed success you'll have to go to the UK or..... Sweden.
Even the fact that the good season for rare South American species is on the doorstep doesn't make me happy, for I've been disappointed to many times.
But, who knows? If something nice is being imported, I could let you know.

Kattes · Post by **Kattes** » 19 Sep 2007, 19:08

Thanks for the info Marc! It's good to know that there's a "link" in the Netherlands. Although I will decide on the destination when the time comes, after making a billion phone calls to determine what's available and where. I know that Netherlands is the place where finding these lovely cats could be a bit harder than for example UK or Germany, but I have some friends over there so that's why NL is definately on the list.

When these plans start becoming reality, I'll contact you if Netherlands becomes my destination. And if so, I can definately spare one oncinus.

Thanks again!

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 19 Sep 2007, 19:19

Kattes wrote: And if so, I can definately spare one oncinus. Thanks again!

And thank you too for this kind offer. Even if you decide not to come to the Netherlands, I appreciate your intentions.

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 19 Sep 2007, 20:53

Ooooo.....
Marc if you get that male jaguar then it will be your duty to join my cause in breeding them.
I have a cunning plan in the making regarding this.
By the way I think I have two males and three females.
I shall take foties and you can help me decide.

Matt

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 19 Sep 2007, 21:59

grokefish wrote: Marc if you get that male jaguar then it will be your duty to join my cause in breeding them.

If this is going to work out, I certainly will.

grokefish wrote: I shall take foties and you can help me decide.

Let's have them. Btw: the ones you've already sent me (thanks) are very nice, but can't be used to determine gender.

daniel60 · Post by **daniel60** » 20 Sep 2007, 11:19

Marc van Arc wrote:For guaranteed success you'll have to go to the UK or..... Sweden.

Sweden is quite ok - if you're not looking for the larger species.
Btw, I just bought two jaguars (hopefully a pair) and a couple of peruvian "Novia tiger".
Haven't seen any of the fish yet - does anyone know what "Novia tiger" is? Or is it "Novia tigre" as in the river?
Based on the description I've got on the phone, it seems to be some kind of Tatia.

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 20 Sep 2007, 12:17

Marc those are not the pictures for determining text I will take them when I move the fishys to their permanent home.
Matt

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 20 Sep 2007, 15:38

grokefish wrote:Marc those are not the pictures for determining text I will take them when I move the fishys to their permanent home.

Okay, just take your time. And thanks again for sharing them.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 20 Sep 2007, 15:55

daniel60 wrote: Btw, I just bought two jaguars (hopefully a pair) and a couple of peruvian "Novia tiger".
Haven't seen any of the fish yet - does anyone know what "Novia tiger" is? Or is it "Novia tigre" as in the river? Based on the description I've got on the phone, it seems to be some kind of Tatia.

Hi Daniel,
You lucky bird....

. No I don't know what species Novia tiger exactly is. Novia is indeed a Peruvian common name, but it's not restricted to Tatias. The Tetranematichthys wallacei for instance is called Novia torito. Contrary to what I have been thinking for quite some time, novia has nothing to do with the word new. It actually means fiancee, little girl and bride. Must have been a romantic person who gave them that name.
Below an earlier thread with a link in my first post.
Scroll down to about halfway and there's a Peruvian exporter's list. Your new fish is on it as well.
No need to say that I'm very curious what it's going to be.
http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... hp?t=20831

Angelface23 · Post by **Angelface23** » 23 Sep 2007, 23:34

I keep Auchenipterichthys coracoideus...I currently have 8 and they have been getting frisky with one another, so hopefully will have more soon! They are by far my favourite catfish!

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 24 Sep 2007, 11:00

Nice! How's the ratio males/females?

daniel60 · Post by **daniel60** » 25 Sep 2007, 22:46

At last, here's Novia tiger. The largest ones are 80 mm SL.

...and my two beautiful jaguars:

Larger pics here.

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 26 Sep 2007, 11:33

I'm afraid my breeding mission of Jaguar catfish took a dive last night.
One of the jaguars knocked the sieve section off a powerhead and proceeded to get sucked to his death!!!

Matt

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 26 Sep 2007, 14:40

daniel60 wrote:At last, here's Novia tiger.

I wonder if they have mixed several species or that the pattern of one species is that variable.
Anyway, what I see is , which is indeed a very variably patterned fish.
However, I think I also see a glance of and even .
What do you think yourself?

daniel60 · Post by **daniel60** » 26 Sep 2007, 19:12

Marc van Arc wrote:
daniel60 wrote:At last, here's Novia tiger.
I wonder if they have mixed several species or that the pattern of one species is that variable.
Anyway, what I see is
Trachelyopterus galeatus
, which is indeed a very variably patterned fish.
However, I think I also see a glance of
Trachelyopterus insignis
and even
Trachelyopterus sp. 'rio_xingu'
.
What do you think yourself?

I think that...
...they're all the same species - the fish on the pictures had just been released after a bus trip across Sweden, and some were of course quite upset. After an hour they all looked pretty much the same, with distinct markings.
...they might be T. galeatus (a species I've never seen IRL). T. sp. "rio xingu" doesn't seem right as they were imported from Peru (probably Rio Tigre).
...if they're a Trachelyopterus species, I need a bigger tank. They were quite cheap (6 euro) and I bought all ten in the store.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 26 Sep 2007, 19:45

Well, you can bet on it it's a Trachelyopterus species and if they all have a mottled pattern (like the middle specimen on your third picture) I'm almost 100% sure it is T. galeatus.
With regard to the bigger tank issue: I can reassure you a little for this species is not a quick grower. So even with 10 specimen, I'm sure you'll have some time to look around for a bigger tank.

daniel60 · Post by **daniel60** » 26 Sep 2007, 23:09

This is what they look like today:

Marc van Arc wrote:So even with 10 specimen, I'm sure you'll have some time to look around for a bigger tank.

I don't just need a bigger tank. I need a bigger basement.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 27 Sep 2007, 20:50

Yes, that's T. galeatus alright.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 27 Sep 2007, 22:28

Btw: I've been offered the possibility of ordering directly from Peru through a cooperation of LFS-ses. That's really exciting! They already order from Colombia, but that stocklist isn't really special. The Peruvian list however is crawling with Bocons and Novias

. Now let's hope this will work out nicely.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 01 Oct 2007, 22:09

Marc van Arc wrote:[ No I don't know what species Novia tiger exactly is.

Just a short note to let you know I'm working on something to prevent the above.
I'm comparing several Peruvian exporters lists with regard to common names and scientific names, so everyone interested will be able to find out which is which.
Should be finished by the end of this week and will by no means be complete.

daniel60 · Post by **daniel60** » 02 Oct 2007, 14:07

Marc van Arc wrote:Just a short note to let you know I'm working on something to prevent the above.
I'm comparing several Peruvian exporters lists with regard to common names and scientific names, so everyone interested will be able to find out which is which.
Should be finished by the end of this week and will by no means be complete.

Are you going to take all the excitement out of buying fish?

But seriously, such a list will of course be extremely useful.
Btw, is T. galeatus really a slow grower? I get a little suspicious when I see the huge amounts of food - mysis, chopped shrimps and mussels - they eat.
And my Tatia intermedia were fully grown (+10 cm) in less than a year.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 02 Oct 2007, 16:01

daniel60 wrote:Btw, is T. galeatus really a slow grower? I get a little suspicious when I see the huge amounts of food - mysis, chopped shrimps and mussels - they eat.
And my Tatia intermedia were fully grown (+10 cm) in less than a year.

Relatively speaking of course, but they do grow slower than for instance T. fisheri and A. coracoideus. But then they grow faster than A. vittatus. What I wanted to state is that you have some time left to build your new basement

.
With regard to the list: just wait till you see it; there's still lots of excitement left

With regard to Tatia intermedia: could you confirm the observation that males have an elongated upper caudal fin (I asked this before, but you probably missed it). Sorry for the bold print, but I want you to see this.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 04 Oct 2007, 19:53

Auchenipterid names: from common Peruvian to scientific Latin.

I’ve been wondering which scientific names were hidden behind common Peruvian names like Novia zapato and Bocon leguia for some time. The fact that I didn’t know the scientific name of Novia tiger triggered me to dive into this matter. And of course the fact that I may be able to order some Auchenipterids directly from Peru also helped. For it’s still too risky to order a nice little species – at least that’s what you thought – and then end up with a two feet Ageneiosus polystictus.
I took four different Peruvian exporters lists and compared them. Thus, several species with different names appeared to be one species. I’ve also translated – or attempted to – the Spanish names into English looking for clues. Some names can’t be translated and some species still puzzle me as much as when I started. I’ve made several assumptions (see separate species) and even if I didn’t I may be wrong at times. And although this list has been seriously thought over, don’t blame me for any mistakes. Just send them to me.

The most common name on Peruvian lists is Novia, which is Spanish for fiancee, little girl or bride. Most of them get the “scientific name” Tayta, which isn’t Spanish but a misspelling of Tatia. However, you’ll see that Novia is more than just Tatia.

Novia aceitero.
Aceitero means oil and as we already know the oil catfish, this one is easy:.
This despite the fact that it’s also listed as Tayta reticulata, which may explain the fact that LFS-ses use the “correct” name on their exporters list– which turns out to be incorrect after all. I’ve has this very experience at an LFS in Scotland.

Novia bombero
Bombero means fire brigade and may refer to the very swift way these fish cruise the water in search for food. Although one exporter lists this one as Tatia brunnea (wouldn’t that be nice), I believe we have in fact two other species here:
Novia bombero Iquitos, which is and
Novia bombero Pucallpa, which is - again – T. perugiae

Novia brown
Aka Tayta brown. No idea with so many brownish fishes in this family.

Novia bull
Aka Tayta bull. See Novia torito (probably)

Novia common
Aka Tayta common. This is indeed the most common species, which is

Novia feliz
Feliz means happy. This one gets a correct Latin name on the lists, which is . There’s no explanation why it is supposed to be happy.

Novia lima
Lima is not only the capital of Peru, but it also means lemon and elaborated. The latter may suggest this fish is nicely patterned, but doesn’t give me any real clue to which species it refers.

Novia otorongo
A very nice species which is so far undescribed, yet known to the hobby as . Aka Tayta otorongo

Novia pijuayo
Pijuayo has no meaning, at least not in my Spanish dictionary. Nevertheless this fish can be identified. It is , although one exporter thinks it’s L. morrowi. Also listed as Pijuayo cat (Parauchenipterus pijuayo).

Novia sirena
Sirena means siren or mermaid. This name is used for .

Novia sissors
Aka Tayta sissors. Should probably be spelled scissors. See Novia tijera.

Novia tatia
Aka Tayta tatia and Novia zevallos. This is with very little doubt .

Novia tapia
Aka Tayta tapia. Tapia has something to do with walls in one piece, but it also means a mixture of clay and straw. Could refer to the pattern, but I daren’t give this one a name.

Novia torito
My personal favourite: Tetranematichthys wallacei (better known as , which is a different species). Torito means young bull, perhaps caused by the thickened upper jaw barbels of mature males and/or the elongated dorsal spine(*).
Knowing this, the Novia bull species could be the same as this one. Mind you, it’s just an educated guess. Sometimes known to be exported as Leaf fish, but that’s a dangerous name: you might get Monocirrhus instead.

Btw: these features are apparent in more mature male Auchenipterids!

Novia tijera
Aka as Novia galeatus, which makes this a give away: .
However, this native name is quite interesting. I would have sworn tijera meant tiger.
It doesn’t. It means scissors, slanderer or glutton. I have no idea were the scissors come from, but I do understand meanings two and three. People who’ve kept this species know their grunting when some other fish has suddenly occupied their piece of wood and they keep on making noise until they have it their way. And glutton needs no further explication.
The scissor thing still puzzles me, but it is a fair assumption that Novia sissors is the same species.
Also listed as Novia tigrillo, which is a kind of fox and Novia tigre, which – at last – means tiger and which may not only refer to the pattern but also to the river Tigre as well.

Novia zapato
Aka Tayta zapato. Zapato means shoe, but I’d rather not walk on these. This is .

Mind you: there is one other Novia that is offered frequently. It’s called Novia madera (madera means wood) but it’s no Auchenipterid. It’s , a nice little surface orientated, well mannered catfish that belongs to the Cetopsidae.

Bocon literally means big mouth. That’s very appropriate. Nevertheless, this is a rather difficult group. Not because of the genus (Ageneiosus), but the species names are not very distinctive. On top of that some exporters give them the “scientific name” Microglanis sp.

Bocon
Aka Bocon common. This is very likely the name for .

Bocon boca de pato
Translated big mouthed duck beak. It is an Ageneiosus species, but don’t ask me which one. They all have big mouths and duck beaks……

Bocon transparent
Very recently “identified” as .

Bocon leguia
There was a former president Leguia who became a dictator later on and chased away many of his former friends. Not very likely this species was named after him, unless the president had eaten those friends.
The word Leguia has no entry in the dictionary and is no river either. The fish is listed as Ageneiosus sp. and will remain so for the time being.

Bocon marmoratus
Is .

Pato leguia (nanay)
Pato means duck; leguia nothing; nanay is a river in Peru. This one is Ageneiosus vittatus, which is also listed as Black Line Pato leguia (nanay).

Zamora cunchi
Zamora is a town; cunchi can’t be found in a dictorary. But the Zamora part gives its identity away: it’s . On lists without exception under its former name A. thoracatus.

Max cat
Aka Parauchenipterus max cat. Could be anything, as long as its large.

Pollera cat
Aka Parauchenipterus pollera. Pollera is translated as a female breeder and/or seller of chickens or even chicken basket. I only know of one species that looks like a (chicken) basket after dinner and that is Astrophysus batrachus. Too bad I can’t get a confirmation on where these are caught. So this one is an assumption and still a big question mark.

When I checked for native names on FB, I found many names missing, turned around or even plain wrong. The Zamora cunchi is definitely not Trachelyopterus galeatus. So I decided not to add names from FB.
Hopefully I’ll be able to order some of these before the end of this year. I’ll let you know in due course whether I was right or not in my attempts to correctly identify them. But first let’s see that they’ll get over here. That’ll be quite a venture. Fingers crossed it’ll work out.

CFC · Post by **CFC** » 05 Oct 2007, 07:14

Have you tried translating in Portuguese as well? A lot of the the south American languages are based on Portuguese instead of Spanish so some translations may be slightly different. Just a thought.

and whats wrong with 2 feet long Agenieosus polysticus? If you can get them to England i'll buy them lol same goes for other Agenieosids.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 05 Oct 2007, 07:57

CFC wrote:Have you tried translating in Portuguese as well? A lot of the the south American languages are based on Portuguese instead of Spanish so some translations may be slightly different. Just a thought.

Afaik, only Brasilian is based on Portugese; all other languages are based on Spanish. Besides these were Peruvian lists, so there was no need to check a Portugese dictionary.

CFC wrote: and whats wrong with 2 feet long Agenieosus polysticus? If you can get them to England i'll buy them lol same goes for other Agenieosids.

Well, if I will make a mistake, I'll send it to you

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 05 Oct 2007, 08:03

Thanks to the person who made the two missing clog tags work

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 06 Oct 2007, 10:09

Marc van Arc wrote:Thanks to the person who made the two missing clog tags work

Indeed, I was getting bombarded with error emails! I think the T. quadrifilis one is still an issue though, that should be reduce to italics rather than the clog tag, no?

Jools