Problem with Larry Vires

mjlfish · Post by **mjlfish** » 13 Sep 2007, 01:12

This post has been edited for potentially slanderous content, until Jools can have a chance to review the original post. As moderators, it's our job, first and foremost to care for the board and members. That doesn't necessarily mean that reports of misbehavior aren't allowed, but it does mean that Jools needs to be the one to determine that, as the extremely busy owner of the site. Please do not repost this until he's had a chance to review the initial post and potentially move it back into the general area, if he deems it to be allowable. Thanks for your understanding! If you have a problem with waiting for the review, you're welcome to send Jools a private message.

Barbie

Jackster · Post by **Jackster** » 15 Sep 2007, 04:31

I agree. Send Jools a PM because I don't think it's fair for a moderator who is a friend/acquaintance
of the person in question to remove the post. I would call that a conflict of interest and an
abuse of power as a moderator.

I believe the real intention of this post was to protect others from potentially getting scammed
and it was not slanderous.

mjlfish · Post by **mjlfish** » 15 Sep 2007, 16:27

I believe that if Larry wants to contest this, he should step forward. No other forums have had an issue with this type of posting.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 15 Sep 2007, 17:05

mjlfish wrote:I believe that if Larry wants to contest this, he should step forward. No other forums have had an issue with this type of posting.

We're not every other forum though.

I mean that lightheartedly, not in any other sense. Not all forums have the same rules or way of doing things.

The post was close to, if not a direct, personal attack and the moderators behaved accordingly and correctly. However, if you'd like to post a first hand account of something then please do. This has got nothing to do with Larry, we would (and have) applied similar tact in other situations.

Take the case of "electricblue" and the bogus zebra plecos sales. While calling the guy a liar and a cheat was moderated, we certainly didn't hold back on letting people post about their experiences along the lines of I paid this much $ and didn't get .... etc etc etc

What we try to avoid is second hand information and inflammatory languages which, as you guess, pretty much ends up in a flame war.

We also avoid trolling which, while I don't think is being deliberately done here, it is close to the mark.

Jools

Post by **Barbie** » 15 Sep 2007, 18:05

Jackster you really should get your facts straight before you post. The first post was removed by another member of the staff, not me. I removed the second because it was more inflammatory and we were simply waiting for Jools to return to determine the approach that would be taken. You were definitely mistaken in your assumption. I won't hold my breath waiting for the apology though ;).

Barbie

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 15 Sep 2007, 18:14

Jackster wrote:Send Jools a PM because I don't think it's fair for a moderator who is a friend/acquaintance
of the person in question to remove the post. I would call that a conflict of interest and an
abuse of power as a moderator.

The PM route wasn't suitable in this case as I was on vacation and have just returned. As to an abuse of power, that's just not the case here - take my word for it.

Jackster wrote:I believe the real intention of this post was to protect others from potentially getting scammed and it was not slanderous.

True, but there are ways of doing that. It was written in a slanderous tone.

Jools

mjlfish · Post by **mjlfish** » 15 Sep 2007, 18:17

Jools, I really like your style. I guess that it was getting to a personal attack stage, but the first post was removed and I was not given any reason and it was not done like this one. So how's this sound, Larry Vires, AKA plecobreeder, ran off with $700 of my friends money. He was to provide 1 pair of L340's and 3 pairs of L236's. He got the money and then ceased communications. He would not answer e-mails, or phone calls or posts. Paypal sided on Miros behalf, but all they could get from Larry was 27 cents.

I hope this fits the description of being non inflammatory. I don't feel it could be written any better. If I promise a buyer something and then take the money and run, then I am a scammer. It just is what it is, and there is no excuse for what has happened. I know plecobreeder has this big reputation and all, but it does not change the facts. I know he has articles and such on here and what he does is beyond your control, but since he has scammed someone now, I suggest leaving the thread up so all can understand he is not to be trusted. As I put in the first thread, check out the aquabid cafe and you can see a firsthand account of what has transpired here. Thank you for your time, Matt.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 15 Sep 2007, 18:33

Seems fine to me, I have also edited the post title to something a more appropriate.

It is important that the facts are reported and I would like this post to stand as I am told (but this is also secondhand) that your friend is not alone at being out of pocket in dealings with Larry.

Jools

mjlfish · Post by **mjlfish** » 15 Sep 2007, 18:43

Glad to hear it's staying up. Thanks alot, Matt.

Jackster · Post by **Jackster** » 15 Sep 2007, 19:38

Here's my direct experience with Larry.

First let me say Larry has always given me great information about suckermouth catfish. I really appreciated any information that he has given me but I had a feeling that something just wasn't right so I never sent him any money to buy fish.

A few months ago, I received a phone call from Larry asking me if I wantd to buy some L236. I think the original price was $125 each but when he called he offered me some for $75 each if I pre-ordered them. To me this was a "red flag" as I typically do not buy expensive fish from a seller I've never bought from before, especially when they do not have the fish in their possesion ready for shipment. We also discussed L340 and I knew Matt (mjlfish) was looking for some so I informed Larry to drop him a call or email. Well Larry did, but he was asking $90 each which in my opinion was outrageously expensive. I did some research and I found the very same fish (from the same seller that Larry bought his from) at 1/6 the cost Larry was asking and passed on the deal to Matt.

Unfortunately, in the deal with Miro it was too late to prevent what happened. I had the chance to meet Miro after he already sent Larry $704.00. Miro asked for help so I gave him the only advice I could. I told him to file a Paypal dispute (item not received) and then escalate it to a claim immediately. He did that and recovered 0.27 cents so he was still out $703.73. In our phone conversation, I also mentioned that if PayPal didn't get him the funds back then to call his credit card company and dispute the charges since the items (fish) he paid for were never received. Well he did just that and finally got a refund. During this whole time frame and with similar posts on many other forums Larry has had no response whatsoever. These are the facts!

Barbie I'm not aware of the first post you mentioned. I only saw that Matt's post above had been removed and your name is on it. I call what I see as exacly what it is and no one has to agree with my opinion. I will say that mjlfish is looking for a good line of regular fin ABN and I told him that you have a great line of genetics which spawn 100% reg fin albinos so if you don't hold it against Matt for being a buddy of mine, I think you may have a potential fish deal in the works. If you don't want to sell to him that's up to you.

Finally I want to say that I have the greatest respect for Jools. I know that this website strives to avoid posting wars and mud slinging. Sometimes removing a post is best to prevent further problems, but in this matter, I'm glad the post remains because I don't wish to see any other people lose large amounts of money.

saltcop · Post by **saltcop** » 19 Sep 2007, 19:06

Hi Jools and Barbie, since you wanted to hear the story firsthand, here it goes but I first wanted to say thanks to mjlfish and Jackster for being my voice and helping me out.

I came in contact with Larry Vires through his Plecobreeder.com site where he advertized L236 for sale. Larry replied to my e-mail within a day and said that he has them listed for $75.00 ea because he needs the money up front to pay his breeder and the process takes about 2 weeks. Since I was new to breeding plecos, Larry gave me a lot of good information on spawning and raising plecos. We exchanged several e-mails over the next few days and Larry seemed like a nice guy. Larry then called me one night and we talked for a while. I told him that I wanted to get set up to breed plecos to make some extra money for my fish room because I am going to be put on disability after getting hurt at work a year ago. I told him that I was a police officer and Larry said that he was in law enforcement also. Larry then told me that he might have a pair of L340 available because the guy that wanted to buy them wasn't answering his e-mails or phone calls but he would let me know because wanted to give this guy another chance. Larry called me the next day and said the L340's are mine if I still want them. I placed the order for the pair of L340, 3 pairs of L236 and Larry's book and paid through PayPay. Larry and I continued to exchange e-mails and after the 2 weeks went by, I asked Larry about the fish. Larry didn't reply until a week later when he told me that he was sent away by his job and was very busy. He was going to call his breeder again and I should know in a few days. I waited another week and started sending Larry e-mails again, all of which he never replied to. I also tried calling Larry but the phone was busy for a couple of days and then there was no answer.

I then filed a complaint with PayPal and then a dispute after a few days. Larry was sent e-mails by PayPal to which he never replied either. PayPal was able to recover a whole .27 cents from Larry's account. I notified my credit card company and they immediately returned $704. In the process, I made a few friends who continued to try tracking down Larry Vires while I was in the hospital getting a new knew.

I'm at the point now where I will not stop until Larry gets what'a coming to him so that he is never able to do this to anyone else. All larry had to do was contact me and let me know what was going on. Now, it's too late. I file complaints with the Better Business Bureau and the Federal Internet Fraud Commission and the Federal Government.

Larry Vires the plecobreeder is a fraud and a thief as far as I'm concerned.

Miro

Kingkat · Post by **Kingkat** » 21 Sep 2007, 10:44

I sent Larry a Western Union money order for a copy of his book which came to $54.38 in Aussy Dollars on 24/05/07. I have emailed him constantly only to be given excuse after excuse. Lately he won't even return my emails. This is highly frustrating as I really wanted a copy of his book.
Regards,
David.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 21 Sep 2007, 17:38

This Summer I received a phone call from Larry V. where we only discussed fish breeding and our mutual disability status. He told me he was unable to work. Maybe he is no longer disabled?

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 21 Sep 2007, 21:17

Hmmmmm.....

saltcop · Post by **saltcop** » 21 Sep 2007, 23:11

apistomaster wrote:This Summer I received a phone call from Larry V. where we only discussed fish breeding and our mutual disability status. He told me he was unable to work. Maybe he is no longer disabled?

When I talked with Larry, he told me that he was a prison guard and had to move to Arizona from Indiana. He also told me that he's in the process of setting up breeding tanks for Plecos. Larry told me that because of his move, he was forced to give his breeding groups of L236 to a friend. The fish spawned in the mean time and those were the fish he was selling for $75.00 each. I guess he realized that they were worth a lot more and maybe decided to keep mine and use my money to build the breeding setup???

KingKat, check with Western Union to see if you can get your money back. If anything, send my a direct email and we'll see if I can send you the information you want in sections.

apistomaster, did Larry ask you for a loan or any money? He was sent out of town by the prizon he works for when I talked to him in August if you want to believe that one.

mjlfish · Post by **mjlfish** » 22 Sep 2007, 00:31

It would appear that Larry is a man of many trades! From prison guard to exotic pleco breeder, to bad we never got to see any pics of the f1 fry from all the different species he has spawned. It might lend a little credibility to his claims. I mean watch this, hey i spawned over 150 different L numbers. Just because I say it dosen't make it true, but if i had pics, boy would you not have a choice but to believe. Anyway, I'm off topic, just wanted to say hey Miro, glad you're out of the hospital and recovering. And if I bump into Larry, I'll be sure to send him your way!!

saltcop · Post by **saltcop** » 22 Sep 2007, 05:08

Hi mjlfish,

Had the knew replaced on Thursday The 13th and came came the following Sunday. Can't find myself awake long enough to write here but thanks for being a friend. I'll let the Feds chase after Larry.

Miro

saltcop · Post by **saltcop** » 23 Sep 2007, 04:46

Hi Mjlfish, I had a few cups of coffee and feel better. I had to answer a few questions for the BBB (https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/compl ... k.aspx)and the FTC (https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup)today so they are working on Larry Vires. They both wanted to know if I want to cancel the claim of proceed. Since I still haven't heard a word from Larry, I asked them to go through with the claims. I'm sorry but I can't let this happen to someone else. I was also hoping that any friends of Larry Vires would have given Larry a heads up so he would have contacted me but maybe they got the shaft from Larry and just don't want to admit it.

Miro

mjlfish · Post by **mjlfish** » 23 Sep 2007, 05:01

You gotta do what's right here, and if that means going the whole nine yards with this, then so be it. If it was me I would be doing the same. Anyone who lets a scammer off easy is just setting up the next victim. He had his chances to do the right thing and has chosen not to do so. I say flush the toilet!

saltcop · Post by **saltcop** » 23 Sep 2007, 05:46

Very well put Matt, now lets move on.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 23 Sep 2007, 10:46

Agreed about the moving on, while this post is here so that others can make their own minds up, I'm not keen on it devolving into a soap opera, a pro-larry Vs con-Larry mudslinging match or anything else other than a factual account of individuals issues.

I don't think we need to know much more about the claim (although I wish you well), but if anyone else wishes to post about their first-hand experiences, I'm certainly not standing in the way of that.

Jools