Using styrofoam in a tank???

catfishguy3 · Post by **catfishguy3** » 01 Aug 2007, 13:58

I would like to use styrofoam under some of my heavier rockwork to protect the glass bottom and give a good base to the rocks. I used it once before in an older tank, since torn down, and had an unusual number of fish deaths that I couldn't determine a cause for. It may have had nothing to do with the styrofoam, but since it was the first time I'd used it I was suspicious.....Anyone had experience with this or perhaps something similar?????

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 01 Aug 2007, 15:05

in most of my tanks I have syropore protection against damage by rock.

In fact, normally I cover the whole floor with the stuff. Than I cover it with tiles, for a kitchen wall or so, because the stuff will float when the covering sand is remouved.

Before I used uncovered foam, but trying to catch some fishes I had to remouve the rocks, and the floor came up, leaving a perfect hole for them. The fishes went in, and I could do nothing.

This is the only - curable disadvantage I had with the material

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 01 Aug 2007, 21:13

I was at a convention this past spring. At the banquet, a guy gave a talk about all the fish he's ever killed, accidentally. Part of his talk included styrofoam. It was soaked in cyanide, but he didn't know it at the time. (It's what makes many items "anti-bacterial.")Please check the foam to make sure it hasn't been treated with any chemicals or run through the same plant that chemically treats foam. This guy's fish died in one hour. Just a heads-up.

Amanda

(It was actually a very funny presentation)

catfishguy3 · Post by **catfishguy3** » 02 Aug 2007, 15:12

Thanks Bas and Amanda. Doing more web research I see that a LOT of folks do use styrofoam in various ways in their tanks.....That said, Amanda scared the stuff outa me with that cyanide story!! Yes, that's my concern, many times things are labeled alike, i.e., styrofoam is styrofoam is styrofoam, when in reality they are NOT!! I think more homework is required and possibly I will come up with a different material, just to be safe. Like many of us, I have a lot of money and time invested in my catfish. I'd REALLY hate to poison them!!

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 02 Aug 2007, 15:35

Amanda did shock me as well

My impression is, Europe and the USA differ a lot, especially where chemicals are concerned. Thus I think advices from 'over the ocean' should perhaps always be adapted to the local situation.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 02 Aug 2007, 17:21

Bas, you make a good point - the real problem is of course to understand WHEN there is a difference and when there isn't.

--
Mats

catfishguy3 · Post by **catfishguy3** » 02 Aug 2007, 21:44

To All. I've sent off an inquiry directly to DOW Corning, the folks that make styrofoam, about this subject. I'll let you know what their answer is...One thing I did realize is that all "foam" isn't "styrofoam". That is a patented brand name by DOW. Apparently LOTS of people make similar products and no doubt some of them are safe and some dangerous in our applications (aquariums). I guess we have to be fairly certain of just what it is we're using before we risk a fish kill. I'll pass on DOW's remarks as soon as they respond.....and yes, I'm sure there are different brand names and safety standards on opposite sides of the "pond", and that's a good point also.

syno321 · Post by **syno321** » 02 Aug 2007, 22:19

I agree that not all styrofoam is the same. For years, I have used the styrofoam that they package meat in grocery stores, as well as, the styrofoam that comes in fish boxes without a problem. I've got a fellow serious ( serious enough to have attended the first 2 catfish conventions with me )aquarist and catfish expert who has worked for years at the Dow plant in this area and I'll try to get him to answer this thread.

catfishguy3 · Post by **catfishguy3** » 03 Aug 2007, 14:55

Good Morning All. I got a reply from DOW. They say that "styrofoam" is manufactured as an insulating material and is also used in food packageing. They say it's "generally considered to be inert", but they haven't tested it in aquariums.....so they won't say if it's safe or not. To my way of thinking, something that is food safe....for a few days, may not be as safe when submerged in water for months or even years, such as we do in our tanks........I know, I know, LOTS of people use it with no problems, so I guess the best suggestion I could make is to simply be sure of what it is before we place it in a tank. As Amanda pointed out, some foam products may be treated with chemicals for specific applications and not suitable in our tanks.....I think I'll just build a sub-frame of PVC water pipe and use that to support my rockwork. The stuff is cheap, easy to work with and if it's safe for drinking water it should be fine in my tanks.....Or maybe I'll just go back to keeping a Betta in a bowl!!......Just kidding, I love my catfish.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 03 Aug 2007, 23:23

Styrofoam is polystyrene that has had some "blowing agent" (similar to baking powdern when you bake cakes) to make bubbles.

Polystyrene is a VERY common plastic in all sorts of places, and it's indeed inert in water. There are, however, two things to consider:
1. Most polystyrene products have addiitives, such as anti-{bacterial,mold} products, softeners (to make it more "bendy"). There are probably also "byproducts" in from various production stages. Whilst the polystyrene itself is inert and harmless, the other components may not be either. If it's ok for food-use, then it's most likely OK for aquarium too.
2. DOW can't guarantee that something is safe without also testing it properly for that particular use - that would probably require 20 years worth of research to make sure. Not something you'd commit to in a single e-mail...

--
Mats

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 06 Aug 2007, 14:41

Sorry to scare the pants off of everybody. But, I'd hate for anybody to lose an aquarium full of fish!

In the US, folks are quite obsessed with all things anti-bacterial: wipes, soaps, towels, shirts, bedding, caulking, paint, wood, you name it, it's likely to have an anti-bacterial treated cousin. Oddly, it doesn't make us any safer. If incorrectly used, it's more likely to create resistant bacteria, according to preliminary studies(especially the hand sanitizer goop).

I re-caulked a tank recently. I was surprised to see the extent of the anti-bacterial components available just in caulking! Shocked me out of the store. In the US, I have found that if something is "food safe" it is likely to be aquarium safe. Example: the RO water container I use is a Rubbermaid barrel with the NSF seal on it. It's safe to store water for human consumption(as long as it is clean and covered). This is where I keep the clean RO water. There are exceptions, as with anything. Common sense always prevails.

I would highly recommend that you find out what constitutes "anti-bacterial" where you live, just as you are doing. This may mean one thing in the US and something else in South Africa and another thing in Germany.

Sincerely,
Amanda

snowball · Post by **snowball** » 07 Aug 2007, 06:00

I supposed one way to test might be to break off a small bit of the foam in question and float it in a bowl of aquarium water under lights and see if any algae grows on it. I assume* that any anti-bacterial or anti-fungal agents would prevent algal growth too.

I suggest this only because all the bits of foam I've ever used in my tanks (mostly to block corner gaps or support filter pipes, etc.) end up green within a short space of time

* emphasis on this word as I am well aware of the dangers in using it!

Benjamin · Post by **Benjamin** » 07 Aug 2007, 12:30

That, or set up a small tank with the type of foam youre planning on using with a few test fishes, a few feeders for example.

I've always used it in all my tanks but always the same local brand, not all foams are alike, so risking your expensive cats over it would be a real shame.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 07 Aug 2007, 14:02

That's a good idea. I don't know which tests to use, though. We all know about the usual suspects: copper, silicates, calcium, phosphates and iron. How can we take this a step further? I wish someone would come out with a poison-type test for home use.

Amanda

FuglyDragon · Post by **FuglyDragon** » 29 Oct 2007, 10:21

my 2 cents...

Have recently (over last 3 weeks) lost 3 adult male L260 in a tank that is one of three in a rack system.

All were noticably bloated, but no protudeing scales suggesting dropsy, or redness suggesting bacterial problems. They had been 'living' in this tank for nearly 2 years and all died within 3 weeks of each other.

Cory's, and loaches in the same tank not effected. Sunshine, Goldie, Spotted medusa, L144 & L128 + other corys and loaches in different tanks on the same rack (same water) not effected.

All water tests normal, pretty much as they have been for last 2 years and there is a UV system on the rack, no recent changes in food.

The only difference I can find is that the tank in question had small pieces of polystryene placed on the bottom under some heavy rockwork, which had been exposed by the digging actions of the fish and I am wondering if they attempted to eat it and that somehow had an effect on them, perhaps causing a blockage in their digestive system... anyone got any opinions ?

I have removed the offending polysyrene but alas only 1 L260 left now (smnall juvinile) so my L260 breeding program has hit a snag.

Using styrofoam in a tank???

Using styrofoam in a tank???

styrofoam in tanks

using styrofoam in a tank??

styrofoam

Using styrofoam in a tank??